1908 Buick
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Topic author - Posts: 74
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:19 pm
- First Name: Robert
- Last Name: Bente
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- Location: Redding, Ca.
- MTFCA Number: 49948
1908 Buick
The HCCA site is a dead horse as far as input and thoughts on early car restorations.
I have had a lot of insight and recommendations on my last project, 1916 Buick Barn find, from my fellow T brothers and sisters.
I’m in the process, during this COVID thing, of a restoration of a 1908 Buick model G.
It weathered the Car fire 2 years ago with heat and smoke damage.
I started my journey with car restorations 5 years ago upon my mandatory retirement as a Smokejumper at age 57.
My 1916 runabout is by far the best and most reliable vehicle I’ll ever own, however, I also like the Buick’s.
Is there an interest of a knuckleheads attempt at a restoration of an early car on this site?
r/s Bob, Locked down in Sunny, Redding, CA.
I have had a lot of insight and recommendations on my last project, 1916 Buick Barn find, from my fellow T brothers and sisters.
I’m in the process, during this COVID thing, of a restoration of a 1908 Buick model G.
It weathered the Car fire 2 years ago with heat and smoke damage.
I started my journey with car restorations 5 years ago upon my mandatory retirement as a Smokejumper at age 57.
My 1916 runabout is by far the best and most reliable vehicle I’ll ever own, however, I also like the Buick’s.
Is there an interest of a knuckleheads attempt at a restoration of an early car on this site?
r/s Bob, Locked down in Sunny, Redding, CA.
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Re: 1908 Buick
Sure why not! Not everyone is stuck on just one make and model. Just look at, as you have done, some of the other makes shown in this section. Also there are quite a few sections on Buick at The Antique Automobile Club of America;
https://forums.aaca.org/
https://forums.aaca.org/
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
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Re: 1908 Buick
Which begs the question, why do so many on here have to spell Chevy as C***y as if it's some kind of dirty word? It doesn't seem to matter with any other Brand, just Chevy. I have never understood that thinking. Just something to think about while sitting at home. Dave
1925 mostly original coupe.
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Re: 1908 Buick
Well I am certainly interested. I bought a 1907 model G a dozen years ago. It is a great little car and makes me love Model Ts all the more. My car is #6262 and one of the very last 1907s. Like Model Ts it has a few of the next years features on it.
Rich
I had to build a new body for it. A fellow owner had drafted up plans from his and made accurate reproduction possible.
I have posted a few related details here and got some comments from interested members. There are some BRASS Buick groups that are most helpful too.Rich
When did I do that?
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Re: 1908 Buick
I sure don't! I spell the name out "Chevrolet", kind of a poke at the ones that spell it that way. Some of us are in to old cars and just does not matter the makers name, they are all cool. Right now I am keeping my mind active by learning about early Dodges.D Stroud wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:15 amWhich begs the question, why do so many on here have to spell Chevy as C***y as if it's some kind of dirty word? It doesn't seem to matter with any other Brand, just Chevy. I have never understood that thinking. Just something to think about while sitting at home. Dave
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
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Re: 1908 Buick
Mark, I was going to write your first line In this response! I write it that way just to...
Remember, some of the first people that made Fords go really fast were named Chevrolet.
Then our paths diverge a smidge. I'm over my head in Old Tractors. Bloop, bloop, bloop.
Dave, to some, it is a dirty word. I'm a Chevrolet man but don't mess with old Fords. Like the Buick Lucerne out here too.
Bob, a knucklehead could be a friend of mine. I'm dumber than a pail of water!
Rich, beautiful Buick.
I'd love to see your Buick come back to the land of the living!
Remember, some of the first people that made Fords go really fast were named Chevrolet.
Then our paths diverge a smidge. I'm over my head in Old Tractors. Bloop, bloop, bloop.
Dave, to some, it is a dirty word. I'm a Chevrolet man but don't mess with old Fords. Like the Buick Lucerne out here too.
Bob, a knucklehead could be a friend of mine. I'm dumber than a pail of water!
Rich, beautiful Buick.
I'd love to see your Buick come back to the land of the living!
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated
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Re: 1908 Buick
Thank you Duey for the compliment.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
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Topic author - Posts: 74
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- First Name: Robert
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- MTFCA Number: 49948
Re: 1908 Buick
After dismantling, I also checked the cylinder bores and found that my thrust Babbitts are shot. Does anyone know of of a person in N. Ca. that does Babbitt work.
Otherwise, sanding, sanding, sanding. Getting close to first layer of primer.
r/s Bob
Otherwise, sanding, sanding, sanding. Getting close to first layer of primer.
r/s Bob
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Re: 1908 Buick
Look up Eric Barrett in the Auburn area. He’s a regular here on the forum and has done many engines of various makes
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Re: 1908 Buick
Not only does Eric "do" babbitt, he's an early member of the Buick Club, like #99. He can help you out in many ways. Auburn and Redding aren't THAT far apart.
T'ake care,
David Dewey
David Dewey
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Re: 1908 Buick
Personally, I would be VERY glad to read your posts on this restoration. I love Model T's, but it is very nice to see OTHER projects, especially when they are of relatively obscure cars. (Not that Buick is obscure, but seeing the really OLD ones IS OBSCURE. You never see them) It is very interesting to see how other manufacturers did things, especially compared to the Model T.
So just keep posting!!
Bill
So just keep posting!!
Bill
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Re: 1908 Buick
That is fantastic to see. It looks familiar.
Did you find the serial number?
Rich
Did you find the serial number?
Rich
When did I do that?
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Topic author - Posts: 74
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:19 pm
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- Location: Redding, Ca.
- MTFCA Number: 49948
Re: 1908 Buick
Rich, I did find the serial #10650 on the fly wheel. I got in contact with Erik B. and it sounds like he can help solve my Babbitt issue.
Also, a question for Rich, what shade of red did you use?
I have been starting work on this at 04:00 hours and stopping at around 11:00 due to the summer heat here in Redding.
Picture is engine crankcase minus the jugs, and cylinders with pistons, notice top left thrust Babbitt. The pistons weigh about 8 lbs. or so.
r/s Bob
Also, a question for Rich, what shade of red did you use?
I have been starting work on this at 04:00 hours and stopping at around 11:00 due to the summer heat here in Redding.
Picture is engine crankcase minus the jugs, and cylinders with pistons, notice top left thrust Babbitt. The pistons weigh about 8 lbs. or so.
r/s Bob
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Re: 1908 Buick
I helped a friend button up his ‘08 Rambler 2 cylinder opposed engine a while back. Similar engine by design, but was sumthin like 5.5” bore and 6” stroke, and 11”+ rod length. He had pushed the pistons too far up into the bore during final assembly, and the ring snapped out above the bore. It was a horrible mistake!!
He had to take a long aircraft drill bit thru the spark plug hole and drill the piston ring into pieces to break it apart and get the pistons out of the jugs. Turns out the pistons and bore were ruined in the process... and he had a bear of a time finding a piston manufacturer who could produce in this size range. Several years, and just as many thousands of dollars later, it eventually went back together and is finally running
He had to take a long aircraft drill bit thru the spark plug hole and drill the piston ring into pieces to break it apart and get the pistons out of the jugs. Turns out the pistons and bore were ruined in the process... and he had a bear of a time finding a piston manufacturer who could produce in this size range. Several years, and just as many thousands of dollars later, it eventually went back together and is finally running
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Re: 1908 Buick
I agree, I would like to see more posted on progress.
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Re: 1908 Buick
Some folks take out a valve cage and make a spacer to go inside in place of the cage the prevents the piston from going too high and loosing the piston ring. usually you at least lose the piston when that happens. Once the rod is assembled on the crank, then you take out the spacer!
T'ake care,
David Dewey
David Dewey
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Topic author - Posts: 74
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:19 pm
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- MTFCA Number: 49948
Re: 1908 Buick
The valve cages are huge, maybe 5 lbs. each. I’ll check the valve guide clearance and reseat before installation.
The push rods are 20” long. 12” ruler for scale. What amazes me is that the crank shaft and cam seem fragile for the weight and bulk of the pistons and valve assembly.
r/s Bob
The push rods are 20” long. 12” ruler for scale. What amazes me is that the crank shaft and cam seem fragile for the weight and bulk of the pistons and valve assembly.
r/s Bob
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Re: 1908 Buick
Wow! That is farther apart than I had mine. Your serial number is about halfway through the Model year. My '07 is 37 away from being an '08 and has some '08 features. '06 and '07 had a Purple Lake paint that was a very deep maroon. The '08s I have seen used more of a red. Purple Lake has been matched in a Martin Senour formula and I'll bet the 1908 colors also have. Some of the other Buick guys will know.
It's great to see the photos.
As you have probably noticed the center throw of the crankshaft is offset. Grinding the journal could be a trick to do. Also shown in my photos above are the oil tubes and troffs for lubricating the rod journals. I found them amusing.
Rich
It's great to see the photos.
As you have probably noticed the center throw of the crankshaft is offset. Grinding the journal could be a trick to do. Also shown in my photos above are the oil tubes and troffs for lubricating the rod journals. I found them amusing.
Rich
When did I do that?
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Re: 1908 Buick
I would imagine that Erik B is well outfitted to handle the tight offset of the crank journals. However, just in case, I have a nearly hundred year old manual crank pin cutter that could do the job. It may need a bit of freshening, mostly proper sharpening of the correct cutter. It is generally in very nice condition and I have used it to cleanup model T crankshafts.
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Topic author - Posts: 74
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Re: 1908 Buick
Frame has been painted with self etching primer and primer. Back to sanding. The wheels will be next. I could use some advice about sanding and prepping wheels for paint. Also, what’s the best way to paint spokes evenly?
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Re: 1908 Buick
" what’s the best way to paint spokes evenly?"
On a solid old barbecue spit. Add length to the shaft if needed, and support to hold the weight of the wheel. Some blocks or cones to help center the wheels (fronts and rears will likely need different blocking). The spit motor needs to just turn the thing.
Work the paint slowly as the wheel turns. How much to apply varies with types of paints, and takes a little practice to get a feel for it. Too thick and the paint will wrinkle as it dries. Too thin is better, you will likely want more than one coat anyway. Some practice to get the difficult areas first, then cover the easier areas to finish. Leave it rotating until the paint has set fairly well. Even moderately thick areas won't run.
As far as prepping the wheel? Just plain old drudgery. The best steps vary by what conditions and paints need to be dealt with. I use an oval rasp file in the "cradle" between the spokes at the hub end. I like to use emery tape around the spokes for most of the round length. Don't overdo it. You want to final sand WITH the grain! But the emery tape makes nice work leveling unevenness and smoothing the spokes. Small divots,gouges, and harmless surface cracks can be filled with J B Weld if you are not using a "natural" finish.
If your wheels are nicely rebuilt, they will still need some prep. Sanding with fine and then very fine sandpaper. A steering wheel rim I just painted I finish sanded with worn 400 grit, and it still took three coats of spray can black to look good (sanding between coats with finer sandpaper). People doing really NICE work use even finer sandpaper, even on the wood.
On a solid old barbecue spit. Add length to the shaft if needed, and support to hold the weight of the wheel. Some blocks or cones to help center the wheels (fronts and rears will likely need different blocking). The spit motor needs to just turn the thing.
Work the paint slowly as the wheel turns. How much to apply varies with types of paints, and takes a little practice to get a feel for it. Too thick and the paint will wrinkle as it dries. Too thin is better, you will likely want more than one coat anyway. Some practice to get the difficult areas first, then cover the easier areas to finish. Leave it rotating until the paint has set fairly well. Even moderately thick areas won't run.
As far as prepping the wheel? Just plain old drudgery. The best steps vary by what conditions and paints need to be dealt with. I use an oval rasp file in the "cradle" between the spokes at the hub end. I like to use emery tape around the spokes for most of the round length. Don't overdo it. You want to final sand WITH the grain! But the emery tape makes nice work leveling unevenness and smoothing the spokes. Small divots,gouges, and harmless surface cracks can be filled with J B Weld if you are not using a "natural" finish.
If your wheels are nicely rebuilt, they will still need some prep. Sanding with fine and then very fine sandpaper. A steering wheel rim I just painted I finish sanded with worn 400 grit, and it still took three coats of spray can black to look good (sanding between coats with finer sandpaper). People doing really NICE work use even finer sandpaper, even on the wood.
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Re: 1908 Buick
Spraying may very well be the best way. However I use a soft 1" brush and enamel that dries slow. I believe that is the best way to get even coverage.I paint one side of one spoke and flip the wheel over and do the other side and the next one. Enamel flows out well.
you might consider trying it.
Rich
you might consider trying it.
Rich
When did I do that?
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Re: 1908 Buick
I’ve painted many wheels with slower drying paints and a brush, mostly for horse-drawn vehicles. With longer, thinner spokes than most automobile wheels, I can’t even imagine getting smooth, even coverage any other way. The single time I chose to spray-paint wheels, it was more difficult tenfold to avoid leaving some “dry” or unpainted spots.
Regardless the method you choose, rigging the wheels so you can turn them as you paint makes things much easier. If you choose to paint with a brush, don’t stint on its quality. A chisel sash brush or a “deer foot” are good choices for wheels.
Regardless the method you choose, rigging the wheels so you can turn them as you paint makes things much easier. If you choose to paint with a brush, don’t stint on its quality. A chisel sash brush or a “deer foot” are good choices for wheels.
"Get a horse !"
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- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
- First Name: Richard
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- Location: Idaho Falls, ID
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Re: 1908 Buick
I realize the previous photos I posted aren't so good. These may be better. They show no brush strokes. The first are with Dulux enamel and second with Van Sickle enamel. The paints have held up well with many miles of touring.
Just a couple more minutes of my view.
Thanks
Rich.
I'm not trying to change anyone's preference but to show it can be done and offering the option. Both Rich B. and I have used brushes in other endeavors and may be a bit proficient with them but it isn't that hard to learn. Also, as the earliest wheels were brush painted it does seem like it's somewhat authentic. With age the wood grain starts to appear. Even that and if there were some brush strokes showing I would deem it charming.Just a couple more minutes of my view.
Thanks
Rich.
When did I do that?
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Re: 1908 Buick
Mighty pretty wheels, Rich ! Thanks for posting the pictures.
We moderns tend to forget that beautiful “high” finishes were produced with brushes long before the advent of spray painting. The method of application aside, the keys to a flawless finish are surface preparation, proper “thinning” of the paint, and final detailing.
With increasing restrictions on materials and concern for air quality, the home restorer may find greater flexibility by using brushable enamels. Alkyd resin enamels have been commonly in use since the late 1920s, they produce attractive and durable films.
We moderns tend to forget that beautiful “high” finishes were produced with brushes long before the advent of spray painting. The method of application aside, the keys to a flawless finish are surface preparation, proper “thinning” of the paint, and final detailing.
With increasing restrictions on materials and concern for air quality, the home restorer may find greater flexibility by using brushable enamels. Alkyd resin enamels have been commonly in use since the late 1920s, they produce attractive and durable films.
"Get a horse !"
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Topic author - Posts: 74
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:19 pm
- First Name: Robert
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- Location: Redding, Ca.
- MTFCA Number: 49948
Re: 1908 Buick
I finished painting the frame, and now on to the wheels. I dropped of my crank with the fly wheel still attached, and piston rods for re- babbitting. Also, I picked up 18 model T Reground crankshafts and delivered to Erik Barrett in Auburn. Most of them were EE. He was in the process of pouring Babbitts and I got to see the operation. Wow, Babbitt pouring is one thing I’ll leave to the experts, Erik B.
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Topic author - Posts: 74
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:19 pm
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- MTFCA Number: 49948
Re: 1908 Buick
I’ve finished this project. My favorite and most reliable car is my 1916 T runabout. It seems I’ve turned to the Buick’s. The model G two cylinder is about done, and I got a Model 17 to fill the void.
I will try to add a picture, otherwise, happy holidays buddies.
r/s Robert Bente
Redding, Ca.
I will try to add a picture, otherwise, happy holidays buddies.
r/s Robert Bente
Redding, Ca.
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Topic author - Posts: 74
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:19 pm
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Re: 1908 Buick
The brass Buick site will have a link
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Re: 1908 Buick
Dang you work fast!
Thank you for the update.
Happy Holidays! And a wonderful New Year.
Thank you for the update.
Happy Holidays! And a wonderful New Year.