For the Record - An Objection

Posts that have nothing to do with the Model T. You can post here or OT posts will be moved here.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
HPetrino
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:14 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Petrino
Location: Modesto, CA

For the Record - An Objection

Post by HPetrino » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:09 pm

The OT thread about the recent election has been removed. I have just read and re-read the Forum Rules. I could find nothing in those rules that would warrant removing that thread. Just because one person didn't like the fact that it had political content is not sufficient reason to stifle civil, legitimate, rule compliant, and stimulating discussion. I thought that's what the "OT" section was specifically for. I don't agree with some of the opinions posted in that thread, but the posters have every right to express their opinions.

If the Board wants to outlaw all political discussion it should add such language to the rules.

User avatar

DLodge
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:14 pm
First Name: Dick
Last Name: Lodge
Location: St. Louis MO
MTFCA Number: 19659
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by DLodge » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:28 pm

I agree that the rules do not specifically prohibit the expression of political views. The rules also do not prohibit proselytizing for a specific religion, yet I would be as unhappy with that on this forum as I was when I saw the political posts. (And no, if someone objected, it wasn't me.) Many decades ago, when I was in AFROTC, I remember that the Air Officers' Guide stated that, in the interest of harmony, officers shouldn't discuss politics or religion. (The unspoken third part of that advice was "or other officers' wives.") There are so many places on the internet where one can discuss, debate, argue and analyze politics that I kind of like a place where the subject is left outside when we enter. True, the rules govern the forum, but I think that a modicum of consideration can help as well, in the absence of a specific rule.

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:06 pm

www.smokstak.com smoke-flames-gas section
If you feel the need to climb on a political soap box try above. I am pretty sure no politics were allowed on the old forum, so maybe this one needs updating adding no religion too to the forum rules. It should go without saying, Model T owners cover a wide spectrum of politics and religion, along with being a family orientated site, should not be allowed nor tolerated no matter which side you are on.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup

User avatar

Tim Rogers
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:04 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Rogers
Location: South of the Adirondacks
Board Member Since: 2013

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by Tim Rogers » Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:26 am

The "rules" mean nothing. It's a private club and the people in charge can do what ever they want.

On the old forum I regularly posted multiple period photos on a daily basis to the delight of many forum members but someone complained because my posts moved their thread down the line and out of view. As a result, I was told that I could only post one picture a day but many other forum members are currently being allowed to post multiple photos at will.

Again, this forum is owned by a private club and they can do as they please.
<o><o><o><o> Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks - Forum member since 2013 <o><o><o><o>


Billdizer,Spencer In
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:58 pm
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Dizer
Location: Spencer, In
MTFCA Number: 28610
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 2014

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by Billdizer,Spencer In » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:26 pm

There's still the only one I've seen here still posted, under a "new day" listing? Down a few in this listing.


fschrope
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:54 pm
First Name: Fred
Last Name: Schrope
Location: Upland, IN

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by fschrope » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:18 pm

It's been obvious - at least to me - that there is an elite group that runs this forum from the shadows. They decide what is fair and what is not - quite often the opposite of the general personality of this forum. It's been going on for years.

User avatar

Rich Eagle
Posts: 3307
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Eagle
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
MTFCA Number: 1219
Contact:

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:56 am

I'm not sure that there is any elite group running this forum from the shadows. The generous moderators give a lot of time freely to keep this up and running. They have been most courteous and friendly to me and some of my miss-guided postings. I'm the last one to suggest limits to the Off- Topic site but I have thought since this is a site for Model Ts that off topic should at least have some pertinence to old cars, related hobbies or the time frame in which Model Ts were used.
When I feel the need to comment on politics, current day events or topics that might be controversial with no relation to vehicles or happenings remotely Model T I'm sure I can find a more appropriate convocation.
My apologies if I'm stepping on toes as I have much respect for those who come here for the purposes intended.
Rich Eagle
When did I do that?

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:16 pm

"that there is an elite group that runs this forum from the shadows." I don't know how in the shadows they are, but all sites have moderators. On Craigs list it is the members that can remove postings, on this site postings that don't fit the goals can be reported by it's members. So I guess we are all shadow members when it comes to clicking the reporting tab. ;)
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup


Burger in Spokane
Posts: 1542
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:05 am
First Name: Brent
Last Name: Burger
Location: Spokane, Wa.
Board Member Since: 2014

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by Burger in Spokane » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:06 am

Does that make us all shadow peons ? :lol:
More people are doing it today than ever before !

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by Mark Gregush » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:52 am

Minion maybe! :lol:
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup


fschrope
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:54 pm
First Name: Fred
Last Name: Schrope
Location: Upland, IN

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by fschrope » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:03 pm

Maybe I was over dramatic with the shadow comment, but there are certainly some folks that have a lot of say in what it deleted from the forum. It has occurred a few times on the controversial threads. About 75% or more are pretty much in agreement and then the thread gets deleted. Why?

I hope I'm not digging my hole deeper, I'm not trying to. It just upsets me when a little off center thread gets deleted when most of the commenters are in agreement.

I might ask - at a Model T meeting, is all you talk about Model T's? I think not. The owner of another forum I follow said the other day that the more you try to squelch a thread, the worse it gets. Just let it burn itself out on its own. I agree.

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by Mark Gregush » Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:58 am

"I might ask - at a Model T meeting, is all you talk about Model T's? I think not." When we were having meetings, religion and politics are left at the door and what we talk about after the meeting is between personal friends not a public viewable forum. Personal views on politics, religion should be kept to ones self or their fiends that have the same view. This forum can be read by anyone whether they are signed up or not so, should be left at the door.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup

User avatar

DLodge
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:14 pm
First Name: Dick
Last Name: Lodge
Location: St. Louis MO
MTFCA Number: 19659
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by DLodge » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:12 am

Mark Gregush wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:58 am
... When we were having meetings, religion and politics are left at the door and what we talk about after the meeting is between personal friends not a public viewable forum. Personal views on politics, religion should be kept to ones self or their friends that have the same view. This forum can be read by anyone whether they are signed up or not so, should be left at the door.
Yes, Mark. My view of political discussions among people who disagree (and probably religious discussions as well, though they occur much less often) is that they produce a great deal of heat, very little or no light, and very rarely change anyone's mind. Beyond that, they can also engender bad feelings. All that seems reason enough to discourage them on a forum which exists to discuss other topics anyway. In my various circles of friends (and in my family as well), there is a fairly wide range of political views. There is also an informal agreement that we avoid discussing politics. We know we disagree, why talk about it?


Burger in Spokane
Posts: 1542
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:05 am
First Name: Brent
Last Name: Burger
Location: Spokane, Wa.
Board Member Since: 2014

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by Burger in Spokane » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:24 am

But who DOESN'T enjoy a good political or religious rant ? :lol:
More people are doing it today than ever before !

User avatar

Kaiser
Posts: 515
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:32 am
First Name: Leo
Last Name: van Stirum
Location: Netherlands
Board Member Since: 2016

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by Kaiser » Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:39 am

We, who are living in the so called 'Free Western part of this World' all live unhampered by governments that tell us what we can or can't say, and we should keep in mind that civilisation as we know it does not come for free or is some kind of 'natural state', people fought and died for it.
To keep that precious state of things it is important to remember two simple rules;
One: Agree to disagree
Two: Not everything that can be said necessarily has to be said.

That being said, i agree totaly that political and/or religious topics should be avoided on this forum, as the debate has become rather heated in the world out there and this place is 'a quiet place' to retreat to ;)
And a big thank you to the many members and moderators for keeping it that way !
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
'23 Huckster, '66 CJ5 daily driver


Rich Bingham
Posts: 1398
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:23 am
First Name: Rich
Last Name: Bingham
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by Rich Bingham » Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:53 am

Kaiser wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:39 am
. . . this place is 'a quiet place' to retreat to ;) . . .
Until Marvel Mystery Oil is mentioned ! :lol:
"Get a horse !"


Burger in Spokane
Posts: 1542
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:05 am
First Name: Brent
Last Name: Burger
Location: Spokane, Wa.
Board Member Since: 2014

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by Burger in Spokane » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:04 am

Should one use Marvel Mystery Oil on their water pump ? Asking for a friend .....
More people are doing it today than ever before !

User avatar

DLodge
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:14 pm
First Name: Dick
Last Name: Lodge
Location: St. Louis MO
MTFCA Number: 19659
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by DLodge » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:08 am

Kaiser wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:39 am
... it is important to remember two simple rules;
One: Agree to disagree
Two: Not everything that can be said necessarily has to be said.
Such great wisdom from such a small country!! :D :D


tdump
Posts: 625
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: For the Record - An Objection

Post by tdump » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:27 pm

I must have missed something!
But 1 thing I have learned lately, depending on your leanings in regards to certian things as to how many places you are welcome to talk about politics and religion.
Smoke and Flames,yep,I have lit a fire or 2 there.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic