Tree hugger

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perry kete
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Tree hugger

Post by perry kete » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:04 pm

electric cars.jpg
1922 Coupe & 1927 Touring


Kevin Pharis
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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Kevin Pharis » Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:13 pm

Many of the lithium based batteries also use rare minerals in their construction that are trace elements, and so are not directly mined. So they have to push around a tremendous amount of dirt to process every ounce. Good thing most, if not all, of these mines are in China, or the Congo...! So hug a tree here... and burn a hundred trees there!

If someone really wants to hug a tree... they need to look into algae fuel! The little buggers eat trash, drink sunlight... and produce an oil that almost directly replaces diesel fuel. It absorbs the exact amount of carbon during the growth cycle, as it’s oil produces when burned. A truly carbon neutral fuel! Minus the energy used to produce the oil and vehicle of course.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Rich Bingham » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:36 am

Kevin Pharis wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:13 pm

. . . they need to look into algae fuel! . . .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel
How kewl is that ?!? Will a Model T run on it ? :lol:
"Get a horse !"


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Kevin Pharis » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:28 pm

That Wiki write up says that most commercial efforts have failed... but an article I read years ago stated that the original intent was to have civilians producing their own fuel to reduce or eliminate the fuel requirements of a distribution network (arguably a significant percentage of total fuel consumption). If I recall, the idea was that a household could collect rain water, feed the algae with table scraps, and then mulch their garden with the production byproducts. Where’s the profit in that business model...?!🙄

Meanwhile... our politicians won’t fund an alternative fuel unless it contains a minimum amount of petroleum products, hence why we have “E85”. Alternative liquid fuels have been almost primarily ethanol or vegetable oil diesel, but these alternative fuels are produced via large scale monoculture farming, and compete for resources with our own food chain. Not to mention that the large scale open land tilling releases nearly as much carbon as the crop sequesters during its growth cycle. So these fuels may burn cleaner at the tailpipe... but may not nearly as “green” as advertised...!


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Norman Kling » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:30 pm

They need to do what my uncle suggested, but never did. His idea was to harness the waves on the beach. He would put a huge float on the ocean with an arm running to a generator to generate electricity. This would need to be made very strong to withstand storms, but Someone for sure could make a way to keep the very high storms from affecting it. It would be better than solar or wind because there are always waves on the ocean 24 hours a day.
Norm

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Mark Gregush
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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Mark Gregush » Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:39 am

I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Kaiser » Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:30 pm

Here's a tree hugger for y'all :D
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classic-car-wreck_14_.jpg
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Kaiser » Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:38 pm

This is the general idea, pilot project in Brasil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP3Goegsl2I
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When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Norman Kling » Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:03 pm

Kaiser, That picture is exactly what my uncle suggested. I wonder who came up with the idea? When my uncle told me about that idea was around 1949 or 1950.
Norm


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Norman Kling » Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:06 pm

Kaiser, That picture is exactly what my uncle suggested. I wonder who came up with the idea? When my uncle told me about that idea was around 1949 or 1950.
Norm


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by tdump » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:56 am

If Ideas like using the ocean waves for power and wind and such can be made practical,I say go for it.But my issue with alternative energy is the government getting involved.It should be up to each homeowner to look at the options and go with what works for them.
I have some of the old GE Electrak lawntractors. Battery cost was and still is the major reason the machines didn't take off and stay in the market very long.
Great machines,well made and with a solar array,can be off grid and low maintance.
But unless i can get the used gel batterys for 30 bucks a peice like I was able to about 3 years ago,New batterys make the machine to exspensive to operate.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Michael Peternell » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:13 pm

Just think of nrg given off from our wives heat flashes. Not harnessed! Not funny I know. But my wife would give me the finger and laugh.

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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Duey_C » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:40 am

Ouch Michael. Been there done that. Nearly kil........EXTREME amounts of energy output! Good point!
Yet, how do we put them in the yoke? Aha. Without their knowing.
Been over a damn in France where they used the tidal flows to generate electricity but admitted it slowed the revolutions of this earth just a skoche..
"a household could collect rain water, feed the algae with table scraps, and then mulch their garden with the production byproducts."
What the heck would I feed the chickens without table scraps? ;) Spoiled brats.
Interesting thread!
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Kevin Pharis » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:52 am

Michael Peternell wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:13 pm
Just think of nrg given off from our wives heat flashes. Not harnessed! Not funny I know. But my wife would give me the finger and laugh.
Wouldn’t menopausal energy technically be classified as geothermal...?😜

Now, young children on the other hand... release a tremendous amount of acoustic energy that goes unharnessed into the atmosphere. Maybe installing large collection units over school yards that resemble feed lot fart (methane) collectors could capture the wayward screams and harness into useful energy...?🤔


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:49 pm

A few problems with solar. 1. Electric cars are usually charged at night when the sun is not shining. 2. If we over produce solar, we get a very small amount of payment for what we send back into the lines, however, when the electric company sells to our neighbors, they charge them the regular price. It actually saves the company from generating more power or purchasing it on the grid. They should pay us at least what they pay the commercial producers of electricity. 3. The sun is not out brightly every day, and in fall and winter we use more in early morning and evening hours but the solar is not producing. 4. To store up our excess energy we would need to buy very expensive batteries.
Problems with wind. 1. The wind does not always blow. Some birds are killed by the generators.
So there are problems with any kind of electric generation.
I do think we should use the cleanest energy possible, however, we need to develop ways of generating and distributing it before switching over.
To bring it down to comparison with cars. If they had built 21st century cars when the Model T was made, they would not have been practical for muddy rutty roads which existed at the time. Progress takes time to develop. Nowdays, very few people would like to take a trip across the country in a covered wagon pulled by oxen. People will make changes as it gets more convenient to do so.
Norm

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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Mark Nunn » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:07 pm

I'm not sure what those of you in California will do when new internal combustion engine vehicles can no longer be sold. California can't seem to keep the power on as it is.


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Kevin Pharis » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:51 pm

Mark Nunn wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:07 pm
I'm not sure what those of you in California will do when new internal combustion engine vehicles can no longer be sold. California can't seem to keep the power on as it is.
That’s the beauty of everyone owning an electric car...! When the county issues a permit to install a smart charger at your home... you unknowingly authorize the local utility to use your vechicle battery as a community storage device! Just imagine, your utility company can charge, or draw, from your vechicle battery as needed! All we need now is for your vechicle to track your daily transportation habits, and then tell your charger how much battery charge and when it will be needed, so that the utility can use your investment “for the greater good” all the rest of the time.

So then... if the utility shuts down because of high risk of fire, but the community effort is keeping the grid alive... if the grid causes a fire it would be all “our” fault right?!?! At least this way the state wouldn’t be responsible for the damages... cuz that would only force them to raise taxes to cover the bill!!! And we know they don’t want to do that!!!!!!🙄

Isn’t life in the modern age great...!🙄


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by big2bird » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:15 am

Kevin Pharis wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:51 pm


That’s the beauty of everyone owning an electric car...! When the county issues a permit to install a smart charger at your home... you unknowingly authorize the local utility to use your vechicle battery as a community storage device! Just imagine, your utility company can charge, or draw, from your vechicle battery as needed!
Not going to happen. That charger cannot perform that function.


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by ModelT46 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:27 pm

Reality is that if we do not save the rain forests, swamp lands, clean lakes and rivers, and cut back on pollution all humanity will suffer. What "mankind" has done to increase climate change, what "mankind" has done to pullute our lands and water ways including all oceans and sea, will bring great hardship on us all. It will soon be too late to slow down the charges that are taking place


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Burger in Spokane » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:44 pm

For those that have never left the States, you really gotta see how people outside the US
deal with the environment. Burning giant piles of tires, mountains of trash, smog like a thick
fog, chopping down every tree in sight .... While the idea is good in principle, the problem
is 10,000x outside our borders as it is within.
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: Tree hugger

Post by A Whiteman » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:15 pm

Algae: great idea and technically works. Problem: so far the energy needed to extract energy is greater than the energy extracted. Also very large areas needed to grow the stuff as well. And then there is the toxic by-product to deal with....

Waves: Again, great ideas and several designs tried. Problem 1: storms - power of the sea breaks up the gear as easy as pie, Problem 2: corrosion - no real answer to that yet, salt and electric current (from the salt) eat away most things and moving parts don't stay moving as freely as they once did.

We "outside the USA" - well, maybe you should come and see how we do things. My visits to the US suggest you should not be too quick casting stones at others.... (Although I will concede many Asian countries beginning with a C just do not seem to care at all about polluting). It is becoming a joke locally that our politicians now want to ban cows from 'emitting gas' - or at least reduce it (I am serious), yet many cities abroad make more pollution than out entire country. Who is fooling who?


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by big2bird » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:46 pm

It's "Global Warming." That would make it a "global" issue. The earth is a finite ecosystem. Only the universe is infinite.(Maybe). :?


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:34 am

The way US activists scream about how horrible we are, after (me) having seen so much
worse while traveling the world, reminds me of the Clint Eastwood quote about gun laws:

"Giving up your guns because bad people create gun violence is like having yourself
castrated because your neighbors have too many kids".
More people are doing it today than ever before !


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:40 pm

There was an article in the paper this morning about a Tesla car which exploded raining burning batteries down on the houses nearby. Every new idea is met by some disadvantage or liability. The current generation of internal combustion cars is very safe and almost emission free.
Norm


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by big2bird » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:26 pm

Norman Kling wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:40 pm
There was an article in the paper this morning about a Tesla car which exploded raining burning batteries down on the houses nearby. Every new idea is met by some disadvantage or liability. The current generation of internal combustion cars is very safe and almost emission free.
Norm
Any combustion produces C02, and that is the issue.


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Dallas Landers » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:30 pm

You emit CO2 every time you exhale. :D


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:10 am

America has more trees now than 100 years ago; New trees have been outstripping harvesting since 1940
Europe's forests have grown by over 1/3 in the last 100 years
Including deforestation of South American rainforests, the earth has more trees now than 35 years ago - spy satellites have been taking pictures of more than missle silos, over the decades, apparently.
Rivers in America that used to catch fire, are now safe to swim in
Cities in America in which years ago, you could not see across the street due to smog are now healthy enough for crowds of people to gather in the streets to burn down buildings and create smog of their own, just like in the good old days.
Biological records indicate that a few million more acres of pre-history California typically burned each fire season than burned this year, and there were no kooks, arsonists, or Climate Change helping Mother Nature, other than the occasional Native Peoples clearing land and reclaiming more than they bargained for (OOPS, did I just type that?)

Climate Scientists, who get paid a lot of money for mostly being wrong have predicted for over 50 years that disaster was unavoidable within 10 years. Their models are typically off by several orders of magnitude less than 1/2 way through their prediction period. As a kid growing up in sweltering Florida in the '60's I was traumatized by the Weekly Reader magazine in school that had the subtle headline: "Earth to become solid block of ice within 10 years!!" (complete with really great graphics worthy of a Creepy or Eerie magazine, which proved their hypothisis, to me at least). I urged my parents to mend their ways before they condemned myself and my younger sister to becoming meat-cicles, but my dad only said "go tell your mother, she's been nagging me for an air-conditioner all summer. Maybe this will get her off my back". I had no idea then that there was a name for my father: "SCIENCE DENIER"! Now imagine for a moment, if those climate guys had not flunked math in High School, and had become engineers, and designed the Apollo Spacecraft, and you were the Astronaut. It would be difficult to analyse who's head was denser.

Highly specialized Scientists (called BIOLOGISTS!) have discovered an amazing phenomena - something so counter-culture that it is not being taught in schools. There is actually a thing that USES CO2. It is called photosynthesis. Look this up quickly before the information is debunked and scrubbed from the web.

If you get your scientific facts from an autistic teenager who apparently no longer deigns to darken a school-house doorway, the above information is of no use to you and may in fact lead you to spend the day whimpering in a dark corner.

Perhaps I should have placed a *TRIGGER* warning at the start.
Scott Conger

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Re: Tree hugger

Post by big2bird » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:20 am

There is a large amount of people that still believe CV-19 is a hoax. There are still people that insist the world is flat.
World wide, the vast majority of scientists agree on two things. Gravity and man's contribution to global warming.


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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:54 am

Which has just been slightly over 1.5 degrees in 100 years (and data enumerating man's contribution to those 1.5 degrees has not been broken out independent of natural cycles). The earth's temperature has never been stable. Beginning in the mid 1960's, scientists had detected a drop in average global temperatures of 1/2 degree since 1940. By 1975 there was widespread concern of a coming global ice-age. Scientists were spreading the alarm and major publications were questioning Mankind's future. OTHER scientists said "hold on, this may not last". So much for Settled Science. One of the benefits of being older is that one has had the chance to live, experience, and recall things from the past which are not taught or believed in the present day. Being aware of facts which do not fit with hysterical propaganda does not make one either stupid or ignorant. When a Scientist states that "there has never been a year as hot as 2020 in all of recorded history", they are promulgating a horrible falsehood wrapped in truth via a literary trick. Those same scientists will also tell you that the "recorded history" of global temperatures is a very short time line, and in fact they and all of science know for a fact that the earth has seen far hotter periods in it's past than we're seeing now. Through a clever turn of phrase and relying on poorly educated population, they've convinced many people of things that are demonstrably untrue.

The science on Climate Change is settled, we're told.
True science is never settled. There are always breakthroughs and discoveries.
Actually, Religion is settled.
Anthropomorphic Climate Change is a Religion, and woe to the unbelievers.

On a note that follows with this thread, I recently read that a bunch of Granola Groupies in CA have been taught an all natural method of fighting fires from an unimpeachable source. Native Americans have introduced a concept of "controlled burn". The theory is this: if you remove years of dried fuel from the forest floor, future fires will not be as severe. What a concept! All natural, and Native Approved, to boot! What will these Krazy Kats come up with next, I wonder??
Scott Conger

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Re: Tree hugger

Post by big2bird » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:45 am



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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Dallas Landers » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:15 pm

Scott is that why they call it climate change now instead of global warming like a couple years ago? :D

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Re: Tree hugger

Post by John Warren » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:52 pm

24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P

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Re: Tree hugger

Post by John Warren » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:53 pm

It looks like global warming is real!!!
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Re: Tree hugger

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:56 pm

in 2017, greehouse gas production in the US, per capita had dropped to the lowest level since 1964. Additionally, this also puts the US at 72% of our all time high (1972) output and as a bonus, at a constant downward path since 2000.

As of 2017, and using the span from 1972 to 2017 to be a fair comparison, greenhous gas production in China per capita had grown 1600% from 1972, and while the US has been shrinking since 2000, China has increased output 600% during the same period. Obviously, the AOC's in China succumb to lead poisoning before being able to build any consensus much less a movement, there.

Clearly, the US must cease being energy independent, stopping all fossil-derived energy production and revert to heatilng with last year's all-natural meadow-muffins just as soon as someone develops carbon-capture devices for burning meadow-muffins. It can't come too soon. All our expensive polution prevention has worked, but is not appreciated by many folks, who would rather spend less $ on Chinese goods made by people who will NEVER reduce their CO2 output.

Doing some critical analysis, If we are to "declare war" on greenhouse gasses on one major producer which is in fact successfully cutting emissions as the woke generation intends, then does it not make sense to "declare war" on those who refuse to reduce output? That is in essence what they're calling for, but just haven't thought it through. If Russia and China think the Salvation Army is a military outfit and won't let them in, how will they react when our nation "declares war" on poluters outside our border?

Are you ready to send your kids to do this job? If greenhouse gas emissions will end the world, do we dare do less?

And finally, breaking news: Land use change (among other things, think "tilling soil to grow food") follows fossil Fuel in CO2 release, and Cement production follows close behind land use change in the creation or release of CO2. Starving folks is one good option and has been used to great effect following the adoption of non-capitalistic notions in many places, but is still not well thought of here. So far. Now, the Grean New Deal where all buildings get retrofitted to be more efficient can't help but require some cement. That's a well thought out plan.
Scott Conger

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Re: Tree hugger

Post by John Warren » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:02 am

My last comment was in gest!!! we have a much larger problem that we can't do anything about. Probably won't see much in our lifetime though! Thanks and agree.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P

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