RANT: AMERICAN GREED

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ModelTWoods
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RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by ModelTWoods » Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:41 pm

With the problems we have in America with political division and turmoil, we have our hands, more than full. Then comes along the GREED of some Americans. America is a 'free market' economy and I know that the price a seller gets is 'whoever the market will bear', but do some sellers have 'no shame' or decency? I have always tried to sell, either on the Forum or on EBAY, anything that I had for sale at a decent, reasonable,fair market price, usually asking what I paid for it; maybe plus a small profit, but many times actually losing money. I am a hobbyist and not in business. If any buyer thinks that I gouged them, I welcome them to contact me so we can work to agree. Most of the time, when buying parts or cars, I have paid more than 'market price or value', usually because I am not a body man or a machinist, and often pay more for parts that require little or no refurbishment, beyond what I have the capability to do, myself. While most Forum members are like me and try to sell things reasonably, there are always instances where some do not. An example is a part that I advertised for, last year on the Forum. I got one offer from a member, but turned it down, Since then, I have bought, not one, but two pair of the same item, on EBAY, and paid less than half of price originally quoted, Then, today, I'm looking on EBAY and see an un-restored, original metal Ford issued keyboard advertised for almost $1,700. with one key on each hook. Prior to this, I had seen them on EBAY for as much as $999.00, and I thought that was outrageous. Either price are out of the reach of most T owners, especially the younger owners and their money is better off spent on their car's maintenance or restoration. The member listing this on EBAY, also lists on the Forum, and I may catch some heat for this rant, despite the fact that I have not mentioned any names, but if asking prices are paid, inflation occurs, and the price of owning an antique car will prohibit the younger generation from preserving this history when us "senior citizens" are no longer on earth to enjoy them. I own my Grandfather's 27 coupe and I have no offspring to pass it on to, and wonder what will be its fate when I am gone.


Jerry VanOoteghem
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:09 pm

Terry,

I have always been of the opinion that a person's ownership of any item gives that person the right to set the price for it. If a certain price is what it's worth to them, then who am I to say otherwise. That's the price at which they'd let it go. A price that's way too high is probably a price that won't be paid. However, if someone does bite, then I guess for them, the price was not too high. It's all relative I suppose. Since I am not in a position to own everything I desire, I have long ago made my mind up to not be frustrated with asking prices either beyond my reach, or just way out of line with current pricing.

I appreciate your views and have no real argument here, except for your title, "American" greed. I hardly believe that what you perceive as greed is a strictly "American" phenomenon. Not sure Americans own the patent on "greed"...

All the best in the New Year!


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ModelTWoods
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by ModelTWoods » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:24 pm

Jerry, I, in no way,, meant all Americans are 'greedy'. It only applies to those who wear the shoes. (If the shoe fits, wear it). As I said, most people in the T hobby are honest people, even those that are in the business to provide parts or services for us. You are correct, that if a person owns something it is their right to ask what they want for it. My point is that not everyone is in the higher income brackets and or has a huge retirement account and sooner or later, senior owners won't be around to preserve history and the number of junior owners, just entering the hobby, are not keeping up with the number of seniors, leaving the hobby.


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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Adam » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:28 pm

Get some chickens and keep them in your backyard. The eggs are free.


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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:31 pm

No problem to me. A key board is not necessary, except for display, anyway. I have always found reasonable prices for parts and services I have needed, and many will do the work for free because they don't need the money, but enjoy the hobby. Same with parts. Only very rare cars or parts are listed for a high price.
Several times when I drive into a gas station, someone will ask me what I want for my car. I give some high price such as $50,000. I figure that stops them, and if someone should actually take me up on that price, I can buy another one (several, for that matter). If and when I do decide to sell, I will look for a club member who would like to buy it, and offer it for a reasonable price.
Norm


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ModelTWoods
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by ModelTWoods » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:33 pm

Adam wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:28 pm
Get some chickens and keep them in your backyard. The eggs are free.
Adam, I've bought from you before, and you're not in the seller classification I complained about. As for eggs, I live in the city and laws provide anything but dogs and cats, and I have two of them.


Adam
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Adam » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:38 pm

Terry: That was quick! I couldn’t resist...


Jerry VanOoteghem
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:40 pm

Norman Kling wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:31 pm
If and when I do decide to sell, I will look for a club member who would like to buy it, and offer it for a reasonable price.
Norm
Norm,

At least in my mind, when the time is right, my ideal situation would be to identify a young member who would appreciate it, who would not expect it, and to simply turn the keys & title over to them. When the time does come, I probably won't have all those factors fall into place, but that would be my ideal. (Not currently seeking applicants :) )

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Rich Eagle
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:02 pm

Hi Terry,
Getting into the hobby when the local enthusiasts would give you parts I have struggled with values for 50 some years. These guys picked up only free stuff on their parts hunts as they thought their gas to get there was an extravagance. For a while I questioned dealers who made money from the hobby. Then there were those parts I gave or sold cheaply to guys who turned around and sold them for 2 or 3 times what they gave me. Now I have stuff I can't give away because there is nobody building Ts here. Well, maybe a few that want things I don't have.
Ebay has had some asking prices 10 times what they normally are.
Nothing comforting comes to mind to say. I do find I get more done in the shop if I leave the dollars in the house.
I feel your pain!
Rich
When did I do that?

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Steve Jelf
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:05 pm

Yes, you do see a few things advertised at laughably high prices. Maybe somebody who doesn't know any better will pay twenty grand for that 1923 runabout, but probably not. Either way, I don't lose any sleep over it. I may take the time to see what similar items sell for elsewhere, but more likely I just pass and forget about that one. If I find what I want at a price I consider reasonable, fine. If I don't, it's something I can live without.
The inevitable often happens.
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Susanne
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Susanne » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:11 pm

If you think the "T" market is bad, try a pocketvalve Harley. I got mine as a kid for the outrageous sum of $1000, and knew it needed work... but I got it because parts were dirt cheap and it was a project I could afford (and had room for)...

Now it costs more to buy a carb for one than I paid for the whole bike. Saddles? Fergeddaboudit. Sheet metal? Hope you have deep pockets. $100 frames and motors? Add a zero and double it for a frame or a transmission (if you;re lucky), double it again (or triple it) for a rough motor with numerous issues. I saw a headlight - with some glaring problems - for $2500. A HEADLIGHT BUCKET. And if you need gas lights? Double that. I wanted to get a speedometer for it - I have everything but the speedo head - one of the few bitsa's I needed - the starting buy in was $2500. For a freaking SPEEDOMETER HEAD.

People wonder why kids don't get into the hobby? Unless they are from a wealthy family, have a benefactor in the club, or are very, VERY lucky, they can't feed the greed of people who paid peanuts for stuff and now think they have a lear jet. Probably from the "American Nosepickers" where they show some country "yokel" get a few hundred bucks for stuff they have around, and they glorify how they'll "flip it" for a fortune... (and don't get me started on flippers... )

I get the whole inflation thing, and I also know some people eventually want to "sell out" of the hobby (especially as they get older)... but it doesn't account for the crazy prices essentially hurting the hobby.


kmatt2
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by kmatt2 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:24 pm

Market =
Number of buyers for a certain item at some price.

Market Value =
What price someone will pay for a certain item.

Fair Market Value =
What price a willing buyer will pay a willing seller for a certain item.


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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Mark Osterman » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:33 pm

I have bought and sold antiques since I was a boy. There are still a few old timers where I grew up that remember me going door to door selling “the bullet that killed Lincoln.” Evidently I was cute enough that few could refuse such a deal. I sold a lot of them! 😀

Now mind you I do give away pieces (especially as I get older) sell at a loss or break even but more often than not I make a profit of some type. That is the point and free enterprise. I have always aimed at buying low enough that I can then offer pieces at below going value. That way I can sell things quickly and everyone comes out feeling good.

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DLodge
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by DLodge » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:40 pm

Like others in the thread, I am puzzled by the modifier "American." Okay, the seller is American. He may also be blond ("blond greed"?), he may be tall ("tall greed"?), he may not hear well ("hard-of-hearing greed"?), etc. I could see "seller greed," perhaps, but I don't understand the gratuitous slap at his (and my) nationality.

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Charlie B in N.J.
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:48 pm

Caveat emptor. ( I had to look up the spelling.) I’m in the camp that says if you can’t or won’t check on the going rates for something you will almost surely over pay. It’s totally up to the seller to name the price and the buyer to pass or take that piece of dead cow out of his back pocket and shell out some lettuce. Nothing wrong either way.
Forget everything you thought you knew.


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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:34 pm

Back this up a little ....

How many eggs are you getting out of those cats and dogs ? Got pix ? 🤔
More people are doing it today than ever before !


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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by John kuehn » Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:58 pm

As for greed it’s a human condition and not necessarily ‘American’’. Using it in the title makes it sound like it’s a problem with our free enterprise driven country. In any event our system is better than other systems telling you what to do and how to do it to make everyone equal in the soup and bread lines that eventually will take place without free enterprise.


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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by sweet23 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:09 pm

It seems to me, every time I walk away shaking my head at a high price, someone comes behind me and lays down the money.

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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Oldav8tor » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:10 pm

I agree that it is incumbent on would be buyers to do their homework so they know what something should cost. Then, if they want to pay more then it's on them. Me, I can usually find an item at a price that is fair. I have also been the beneficiary of the gift of parts and have done the same for others.

When you talk of greed there are a few instances that come to mind....notably in the pharmacy industry. True, some new drugs have massive development costs and they have the right to recover those and make a profit. What burns me are the drugs that have been around for decades and cost 30 cents to make that are being sold for $700 a pill because only one company is making them. Those people belong in jail if you ask me. Now it's my turn to stop venting :D
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by varmint » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:12 pm

*Alternately, we could have set prices but then vendors and manufactures would stop selling and producing parts because it's not worth the investment.
*For parts not being produced, the few remaining in inventory may get taken off the shelves until another bright day comes. So, it ends up not being available to anyone.
*For parts not being produced but are sold at the set price, someone may snatch them all up and sell on the dark market. That's a no win situation.
</rant on>
I went to business school and discovered that I hate business in general for the reason mentioned above. I am also disgusted by the lack of ethics, self-centeredness, ladder climbing, backstabbing, and snobs that I saw in the student life.
</rant off>
My wife's and my solution is to painfully learn how to make the thing for ourselves. Sometimes we will buy the part, make one, and then resell the rare part so that it is not rare.
Vern (Vieux Carre)


Burger in Spokane
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:01 pm

This is hardly "American". Study the history of business and mercantilism,
currency, and banking.
More people are doing it today than ever before !


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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Bills Auto Works » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:15 pm

Terry,

Nothing wrong with a "rant" once in a while. It sometimes relieves stress which is good for your health!

I have to respectfully disagree as I am a big "free market" guy & it is never incumbent on the seller to price something at a rate which is considered not being greedy by another person. If his price is too high, he will not sell it, sit on it longer than he wants to or drop his price. Having said that, I have several times given parts to fellow car guys, because it wasn't worth my time being bothered with selling them. It is all in what your situation is. If you don't have a bunch of extra money to spend on parts for your car, you keep shopping. If you don't have a lot of extra time (like me) you many times pay more to get stuff right away. My labor rate is very high & I actually lose money if I spend too much time trying to save a few bucks.

God Bless
Bill
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Norman Kling » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:10 pm

How many times have you been to a swap meet, looking for a part for your car. If you see one and pass it till you have been all the way around, when you get back it has already been sold. However, if you buy it, and you keep on going around, you inevitably find a better one for a lower price! And after that every time you go to a swap meet you find one for a low price! :lol:
Norm

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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Barry Loucks » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:45 pm

Greed, pride, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth. The seven deadly sins.
Sloth is my favorite.


Burger in Spokane
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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Burger in Spokane » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:37 am

The is currently an "H" headlight lens on eBay for $800.00

If I bought it and installed it on my truck, my truck would then be worth
at least $600 ! 🎉
More people are doing it today than ever before !


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Re: RANT: AMERICAN GREED

Post by Bills Auto Works » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:28 am

Barry Loucks wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:45 pm
Greed, pride, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth. The seven deadly sins.
Sloth is my favorite.
Cute, laid back & star of many hilarious memes....What's not to like! :lol:

God Bless
Bill
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57,64,66 Pont
(2)66 Amb
67 Marlin
67 Toro
73 Nova
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