Utopian Claptrap
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Topic author - Posts: 6411
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Utopian Claptrap
"As the auto industry makes the shift to zero-emission electric vehicles (EVs.... )"
Thats a load of old poop, to paraphrase John Lennon.
Thats a load of old poop, to paraphrase John Lennon.
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
If you consider the energy resources consumed, emissions, and various forms of pollution created during the production of an automobile, you may find the tailpipe emissions of said vehicle to be relatively insignificant over its relatively short lifespan. That being said, our old cars are the most prosecuted by decision makers, and yet are quite possibly the most efficient vehicles on the road when factoring the depreciation of resources over time. A truly “green” policy should never require the population to “consume more”…
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
I grew up in the Los Angeles area during the 1940's and 1950's. The smog was so bad it was like peeling onions in a smoke filled room. Eyes watered, nose ran, throat stung. We didn't have air filters in the cab of our cars and had to drive with the windows open.
They started the air pollution control board in California and the EPA federally. They significantly dropped the air pollution with the positive crankcase ventilation and the charcoal canister and also the cataylic converters on cars and also controls on oil refineries and trash burning incinerators.
Now that that job is done, like any other political group, they must find other things to do to keep their jobs going and the money coming in.
Interestingly, in 1948 my 6th grade teacher told our class that we were going into another Ice Age. The following January 1949 we actually had a foot of snow in the Los Angeles area. I have never seen that much snow at that elevation and that near the coast since. Now that most of that smog has been cleared, suddenly we have Global warming and since some years are colder, it is now just called "Climate Change"
One volcano eruption or one massive forest fire can put more carbon into the atmosphere than all the industry and automobiles combined.
Norm
They started the air pollution control board in California and the EPA federally. They significantly dropped the air pollution with the positive crankcase ventilation and the charcoal canister and also the cataylic converters on cars and also controls on oil refineries and trash burning incinerators.
Now that that job is done, like any other political group, they must find other things to do to keep their jobs going and the money coming in.
Interestingly, in 1948 my 6th grade teacher told our class that we were going into another Ice Age. The following January 1949 we actually had a foot of snow in the Los Angeles area. I have never seen that much snow at that elevation and that near the coast since. Now that most of that smog has been cleared, suddenly we have Global warming and since some years are colder, it is now just called "Climate Change"
One volcano eruption or one massive forest fire can put more carbon into the atmosphere than all the industry and automobiles combined.
Norm
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
LAX is now the biggest polluter in the Los Angeles area. LAX, and all those people. Modern cars emit very little, and most industry has been run to the other side of the planet, taking a lot of job opportunity, tax base, educational opportunity, and payroll with it. The PCV is a very simple and worthwhile emissions device, with an astronomical benefit to cost ratio. Electronic engine management has been of great benefit, also, allowing greater power, much lower emissions, and substantially improved efficiency. I question the value of cat cons, ethanol, no-lead gasoline, MTBE, etc. Improved combustion chamber design and improved materials and lubricants have also made significant contributions to greater performance, economy, and reduced emissions.
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
I agree Norman, 1 volcano and all mans efforts are totally erased.
I can agree that we need to keep cars tuned well both for air quality and fuel economy on our wallets but it just seems like these electric cars are to restrictive. There is a video on youtube of a test between a GMC gas truck and a Ford lightning towing their rated capacity of 6000 pounds. 90 miles and the Lightning was looking to be plugged in. 90 miles, most of us drive farther than that between bathroom breaks with gas burners.
I can agree that we need to keep cars tuned well both for air quality and fuel economy on our wallets but it just seems like these electric cars are to restrictive. There is a video on youtube of a test between a GMC gas truck and a Ford lightning towing their rated capacity of 6000 pounds. 90 miles and the Lightning was looking to be plugged in. 90 miles, most of us drive farther than that between bathroom breaks with gas burners.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
Where I now live is a high risk fire area. We also have some forced power blackouts from time to time. Especially in hot weather when most people use their AC. They tell us not to charge the electric cars during the peak hours which are usually in the afternoon when more people use AC and people are cooking dinner. Some blackouts last a few days.
Now imagine having to evacuate because of a nearby fire, but the battery is dead or other cars along the escape routes die and cause a major traffic jam!
I have no problem with people in the city who drive short distances using EV's or even those in the mountains using them, however I believe we should have at least one gas burning car in running condition at all times so we can evacuate if necessary.
Anyway, if and when it really happens, I will be 99 and if still living, unlikely to be driving. Likely at that time in assisted living, somewhere closer to the city.
Norm
Now imagine having to evacuate because of a nearby fire, but the battery is dead or other cars along the escape routes die and cause a major traffic jam!
I have no problem with people in the city who drive short distances using EV's or even those in the mountains using them, however I believe we should have at least one gas burning car in running condition at all times so we can evacuate if necessary.
Anyway, if and when it really happens, I will be 99 and if still living, unlikely to be driving. Likely at that time in assisted living, somewhere closer to the city.
Norm
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
Change is hard....remember, there was a lot of resistance to the automobile. Some cities even tried to outlaw them. Cars got better, roads improved, the very way we live became dependent upon them and still is.
In the early days of aviation planes were stick and fabric held together with wire, powered by unreliable engines that could fail at any time. Now we criss-cross the world in jets. Technology advances and things change.
EV's are coming...battery technology isn't there yet but it will be. I don't expect to see the end of fossil-fuel vehicles in my lifetime or for some time afterwards, but time marches on. As to the future of our hobby, there are many forces at work that will determine that. Personally, I think we will find a way to keep our Model T's and other classics rolling.
As a biologist, I know one of the basic principles of evolution is "adapt or die." It is foolish to think that humans are immune to the forces that continue to shape our world.
In the early days of aviation planes were stick and fabric held together with wire, powered by unreliable engines that could fail at any time. Now we criss-cross the world in jets. Technology advances and things change.
EV's are coming...battery technology isn't there yet but it will be. I don't expect to see the end of fossil-fuel vehicles in my lifetime or for some time afterwards, but time marches on. As to the future of our hobby, there are many forces at work that will determine that. Personally, I think we will find a way to keep our Model T's and other classics rolling.
As a biologist, I know one of the basic principles of evolution is "adapt or die." It is foolish to think that humans are immune to the forces that continue to shape our world.
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor
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Topic author - Posts: 6411
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
"battery technology isn't there yet"
That's true, with some exceptions. It was the problem with otherwise excellent EVs a century ago, and it remains the primary problem for otherwise excellent electric vehicles today. Perhaps the greater problem is the fact that batteries do not produce energy; they merely store it, with losses. Electrochemical batteries as we know them are heavy, expensive, toxic, finicky, short-lived devices, and they do not address, let alone answer, the question of where we are to get "green" "sustainable" energy in massive quantities at low economic and environmental cost. It's my opinion that geothermal energy development ought to get more attention. It's available night and day, whether the wind blows or not, in all seasons, and equipment to collect it, unlike wind, solar, and wave energy equipment, could be made highly resistant to wind and weather.
That's true, with some exceptions. It was the problem with otherwise excellent EVs a century ago, and it remains the primary problem for otherwise excellent electric vehicles today. Perhaps the greater problem is the fact that batteries do not produce energy; they merely store it, with losses. Electrochemical batteries as we know them are heavy, expensive, toxic, finicky, short-lived devices, and they do not address, let alone answer, the question of where we are to get "green" "sustainable" energy in massive quantities at low economic and environmental cost. It's my opinion that geothermal energy development ought to get more attention. It's available night and day, whether the wind blows or not, in all seasons, and equipment to collect it, unlike wind, solar, and wave energy equipment, could be made highly resistant to wind and weather.
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Topic author - Posts: 6411
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
We are being told that WE are THE primary force reshaping and defacing the world.
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
I’ve been a fan of algae derived fuels for 20+ years, and will start growing my own long before I buy an electric car. Algae is the fastest growing organism on the planet. It photosynthesizes carbon dioxide and sunlight into oxygen, and can yield a vegetable oil. It does not compete for existing farmland, can be grown on a micro level, is easily processed, and the only byproduct is stinky swamp water (that the algae and your garden prefers). It is said that an acre of corn can yield 60 gallons of vegetable oil, soybeans 250, and algae is bout 10,000! A truly carbon neutral fuel source that requires no strip mining or toxic waste, and can be directly introduced into the existing diesel fuel infrastructure without negative impact. Too good to be true…?
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Topic author - Posts: 6411
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
Some work was being done on algae as a fuel source some years ago. I don't hear much about it anymore. If we don't quit urbanizing our farmlands we won't be needing any vehicle fuel, since we'll all starve for lack of people fuel.
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
Pat, your comment hits home, and I can't overcome the impulse to rant. It's even worse than urbanization. "Right thinking" folks are in an all-out war with ag producers at all levels. For over a century market prices have imposed an implacable spiral on farmers and ranchers to produce more and more for less return. This is what has resulted in the vaunted evils of corporate farms and "factory" production of pork and poultry.
The day may come when the populace has to pay what food stuffs are actually worth. When that happens, I predict an end to the current epidemic of obesity.
The day may come when the populace has to pay what food stuffs are actually worth. When that happens, I predict an end to the current epidemic of obesity.
Get a horse !
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
Pat is right on all counts when it comes to batteries and EV's. Another factor that doesn't get enough discussion is what happens when you have an accident and the battery is compromised? Scary stuff.
As far as the battery only storing energy, also correct. That energy has to come from somewhere. The Thumb of Michigan where I live has more windmills than anywhere else in the state. Now they're proposing giant solar farms as well. My biggest issue with these two forms of green energy are that they are being constructed on some of the best farmland in the state. With more droughts and other issues endangering the world's food supply it seems a poor use of such lands.
To put it simply, while in theory these may be great ideas, so far the execution has been less so. I suspect we'll get there but we've a ways to go.
As far as the battery only storing energy, also correct. That energy has to come from somewhere. The Thumb of Michigan where I live has more windmills than anywhere else in the state. Now they're proposing giant solar farms as well. My biggest issue with these two forms of green energy are that they are being constructed on some of the best farmland in the state. With more droughts and other issues endangering the world's food supply it seems a poor use of such lands.
To put it simply, while in theory these may be great ideas, so far the execution has been less so. I suspect we'll get there but we've a ways to go.
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
Leave it up to fast talkin politicians to convince the populace that we will use not yet existent technology and a bit more of your hard earned money, to condense 80% of the nations energy resources into 20% of its already antiquated and under maintained infrastructure… and we will all live happily ever after with no noticeable change to our lives. All we have to do now is dig a bunch of new strip mines, build a couple gigafactories, build a few mega infrastructure projects, and predatorily leverage other countries for their mineral resources so we can avoid ravishing our own deposits. Seems like business as usual to me…
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
No No you got it all wrong! We don’t need the farm land because all the food comes from the grocery store!
“Whether you think you can, or think you can’t-you’re right.”
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
We will have a new source of fertilizer! They are approving the composting of human bodies. So we won't need steers, or horses or many of the animals we use for food, manure, or transportation. We can all use vegetables grown from our ancestors.
Norm
Norm
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
Fertilizer and vegetables…?! Why not skip the middle man and go straight to Soylent Green! The industrial solution to overpopulation
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
Soylent Green is ... PEOPLE!
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
Oh now I get it! the “Green New Deal”
“Whether you think you can, or think you can’t-you’re right.”
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
HUMMM! Mad Max took place in 2021 Soylent Green in 2022, Do we have prophets in Hollywood?
Do it right or do it over,your choice. Drive like everyone is out to get you!
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
Your teacher was correct BUT an Ice Age duration is longer than a a centuryNorman Kling wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:38 amI grew up in the Los Angeles area during the 1940's and 1950's. The smog was so bad it was like peeling onions in a smoke filled room......
Interestingly, in 1948 my 6th grade teacher told our class that we were going into another Ice Age. The following January 1949 we actually had a foot of snow in the Los Angeles area. I have never seen that much snow at that elevation and that near the coast since. Now that most of that smog has been cleared, suddenly we have Global warming and since some years are colder, it is now just called "Climate Change"
One volcano eruption or one massive forest fire can put more carbon into the atmosphere than all the industry and automobiles combined.
Norm
https://geology.utah.gov/map-pub/survey ... uses-them/
What causes an ice age and glacial-interglacial cycles?
Many factors contribute to climate variations, including changes in ocean and atmosphere circulation patterns, varying concentrations of atmospheric carbon dioxide, and even volcanic eruptions. The following discusses key factors in (1) initiating ice ages and (2) the timing of glacial-interglacial cycles. --
--
The Government has failed to "trust the science" when looking at all the factors. It doesn't cost as much of the collected Tax Payer dollars to pass a law as it does to use that money to do Forestry Management.
YES we need to keep cleaning up emissions but also recognize other factors that are currently effecting climate change.
Remember Photosynthesis - the process by which green plants and some other organisms use sunlight to synthesize foods from carbon dioxide and water. So concrete (urban, highway etc) development & forest fires removed green spaces & trees. Now they are capturing CO2 emissions & bitching about the rain (that's cleaning the poluted air)
The Earth's Magma is always on the move. Facts: Magnetic North has shifted from true North. The Western Pacific is warming due to magma movement, warmer oceans bring climate changes.
Earth’s land masses move toward and away from each other at an average rate of about 1.5 centimeters (0.6 inches) a year. That’s about the rate that human toenails grow! Some regions, such as coastal California, move quite fast in geological terms — almost 5 centimeters (two inches) a year — relative to the more stable interior of the continental United States.
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
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Topic author - Posts: 6411
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
I'm certain of one thing: If we can control the climate, which I sincerely doubt, we had better make damned sure we do all we can to prevent another ice age! What a disaster that would be!
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
If I were the U.N. and wanted an excuse to institute a non elected Global Socialist Government...What better catastrophe than Climate change. Perfect we have a catastrophe that transcends political boundaries so we need a world government to control it.
Do it right or do it over,your choice. Drive like everyone is out to get you!
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Topic author - Posts: 6411
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
The new, secular Original Sin:
BREATHING. You're all guilty, and you all must pay!
BREATHING. You're all guilty, and you all must pay!
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
What’s that they say about a government that learns it can circumvent due process in the event of an emergency…? Oh yeah… they might just manufacture an emergency the next time they want to “get something done”
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
"Rowdy" Roddy Piper! I have the DVD hanging on the wall behind me. Pretty good movie.
Makes a person THINK.
And non-elected. Ugh. Wait! They elected themselves. Fail.
Makes a person THINK.
And non-elected. Ugh. Wait! They elected themselves. Fail.
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
A couple stories going around which might be true or not
1. C0VID does not mutate, but the labs have developed many strains which they release from time to time to keep the crisis alive.
2. Most colds and some other diseases are caused by Corona Viruses. When COVID started it was called "Novel Corona Virus which meant it was a new strain. The test only detects a corona virus which could actually be a cold or something else.
Has anyone noticed how few FLU cases pr common colds there have been in the last few years?
Anyway, I am not a scientist and am not saying these ideas are true, but ?
Norm
1. C0VID does not mutate, but the labs have developed many strains which they release from time to time to keep the crisis alive.
2. Most colds and some other diseases are caused by Corona Viruses. When COVID started it was called "Novel Corona Virus which meant it was a new strain. The test only detects a corona virus which could actually be a cold or something else.
Has anyone noticed how few FLU cases pr common colds there have been in the last few years?
Anyway, I am not a scientist and am not saying these ideas are true, but ?
Norm
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Re: Utopian Claptrap
As far as I know, both "common seasonal flu" and the "common cold" are caused by corona virus. "Covid" is a variety of flu, and, in a sane world, "Coovid 19" would be referred to as "Wuhan Flu". "Covid 19" is an especially vicious strain of flu, at least to vulnerable persons. "Flu" (Influenza) has a long history of evolving especially vicious variants from time to time. It's clear to me that various interests are exploiting "Covid 19", and variants thereof, for various non-medical reasons.