1916 Buick barn find

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Robert Bente
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1916 Buick barn find

Post by Robert Bente » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:18 am

I just purchased a 1916 Buick D45 that has been stored since 1950. I know you folks appreciate old original stuff as much as I do. The story is that this was purchased by a returning WW 2 soldier, he drove it for awhile, then parked it in a barn for a future project. It sat there for 50 years until they sold the farm. He had another metal building constructed in another town, with the main purpose of protecting this vehicle. It sat for another 20 years.
The best part is that I believe at least 95% parts are there and original to car.
It’s a big beautifully ugly car, wheel base is 15” longer than a T touring.
I’m scratching my head on the next step, I’m willing to put some time in it, but not to much money.
Any thoughts from my friends on the forum?
r/s Bob
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Rich Eagle
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:47 am

That is an intriguing picture. They are so beautiful when discovered like that.
Best wishes with the project.
Rich
When did I do that?

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Beautiful

Post by FreighTer Jim » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:08 pm

Robert

What a beautiful find.

Thanks for sharing.

Do nothing to it for now.

As money becomes available - try first to get the engine running - then work your way back.

What a great story .... :mrgreen:



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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:28 pm

As I came into the old car scene as a teen, it was just general practice to make everything
flawless and new again .... total teardown and rebuild/paint EVERYTHING ! I did this to a number
of cars, and watched my fellow travelers to the same to many more. But something began to grind
on me about this, and that my excitement and pleasure was never greater than when I saw a car
sitting in its dust-covered, forlorn state, and I began to rethink my own mindless acceptance that
old cars gotta be made perfect and pretty. And over time, I realized that "assignment" of being
forlorn was mine alone, and that I could CHOOSE to see a car like this as being "perfect" as-is, and
that keeping a car looking like that barn-fresh discovery was a FAR better target to shoot for than
turning one more wonderful time capsule into just another polished up and perfect paperwight to
hold a car show parking lot down .... boring !

Were it mine, I'd make it run and safe to drive, and do my best to distress the aesthetics of any
new work done, to preserve the as-found appearance of the car. IMO, this car will never look better
than it does in the above photo. Spend cubic dollars to restore it, and you only degrade the historic
look and appeal in the process. I am sure there are more perfect/restored examples out there today
than there are ones that look like this.
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Mopar_man
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:44 pm

I say get it running and make it safe but that's it. Make it the car that people look at and say "That thing runs?"

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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:57 pm

Historical Preservation is becoming more and more popular. Like other antiques they may someday be more valuable the less we touch them. I developed a love for the way they look over the years too. Perhaps it is remembering how we saw the possibilities in them. The ones I put together that look old don't have that history or value but going through everything makes them more mechanically sound and reliable. It is difficult to go through one without changing the appearance but certainly possible.
When did I do that?

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One of a kind

Post by FreighTer Jim » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:41 am

Every vehicle is “ one of a kind “.

Ego - narcissism- vanity compel folks to turn
a vehicle into something it never was.

Just like all of us - vehicles age.

Just like all of us - vehicles have a story to tell.

Recently - I helped out my good friend in
Holbrook, AZ go pick up and transport this
1911 Maxwell Survivor from Cave Creek, AZ
back to his place.

He is just going to get it running & leave it alone.



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Topic author
Robert Bente
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Robert Bente » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:11 am

I’m going to pickup the Buick today. If there is an interest I can post more pictures when I get it home. I agree that it’s only original once, and I like the look and the story it has to tell.
A few years ago I purchased a 30 chevy with a similar story. I went thru it and got it mechanically sound, and drove it. I even left the 1944 gas ration sticker on the windshield. I did have to paint rear fenders.
r/s Bob
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Duey_C » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:13 pm

"if there is an interest" in showing more pics you ask Bob? Duh! You'd better! If you don't, I'm gonna be peeved. :lol:
What an outstanding opportunity and I like your style. Please show us more.
That Chevrolet is gorgeous.
As mentioned plus, clean it up, make it safe again, enjoy the automobile and watch the people drool.
Myself included. I didn't have to slurp yet but close.
Pull the pan, shifter/cover off the transmission and check all you can etc etc so it won't tear itself apart from the inside out.
Here in "moisture/humidity land" where rust will destroy anything from the inside out, we get kinda antsy about those things. ;)
Your new Buick has mechanical brakes I think so clean and oil the linkages, check the shoes and be happy. Hopefully not too bad from a financial standpoint either. :)

30 years ago I bought a 1928 Twin City 17-28 tractor, tore it apart, fixed it up and painted it up pretty. I sure wish I hadn't.
My color choice was actually FAR more correct than the other fellas back then! I stood out! City of Montreal/Battleship gray is correct.
I used Northwest Airlines gray. The paint is fading, peeling in some places and generally looks sad. Poor ol' boy.
I'll echo, they're original only once.
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:07 am

Wow Bob! That Buick looks great! Should be a fine addition to your collection.


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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by John kuehn » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:13 am

That Buick is a wonderful example of an old car that hasn’t been touched. Get it running and make it road worthy as is. Now that would be neat. Makes me think of early Brass era T’s that were found in similar condition and then restored when they shouldn’t have. To each their own I guess.


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Robert Bente
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Robert Bente » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:52 am

Well, I brought it home and needless to say, the wife was very unimpressed. In fact my intelligence was brought into question as was hers for marrying a person who would bring something like this home. It’s all good though.
The first thing I did was to remove 75 lbs. of mud dobber castings, that’s 5 five gallon buckets worth.
Most of the undercarriage and drive train are covered in a 1/4 inch of old oil and dirt. As far as I can tell, the only part missing is the high tension tube that mounts on the side of engine.
Since the engine won’t turn over, I then pulled the plugs and added a couple tablespoons of marvel mystery.
I used a saws all to cut a tire off for measurements and believe I’ll need 34 x 4’s. It had a white inner tube. So I’ll be looking for some local roller tires if anyone has them. I’m not ready to invest in a new set until I know the issue with the engine.
Just to assure you guys, my plan at the moment is just to get it in a safe drivable condition. The seats may take some creative imagination, the leather that’s there is shot. There is only some minor surface rust and the wood is in very good condition. When I pulled the demountable tire rim off, the nuts spun off with the fingers. Maybe that’s one of the perks about California and it’s dry climate. It’s amazing the power plant differences between my 16 T and this 16 Buick. I can see why the model T was such a success, simple and easy to work on.https:/httphttps://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/download/file.php? ... w&id=22113
r/s Bob
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by FreighTer Jim » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:54 am

Boy does that engine look great :!:

No advice about the Wife

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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Dallas Landers » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:04 pm

Robert, its ok as long as your still sleeping in the house. My wife thinks Im crazy as a loon for rusty 100 year old iron. Maybe she is correct in thinking that? What a great car. Dodge brothers cars had a similar setup with the water pump. I love your plan to get it running and safe. Creative seats are what I had in my roadster fo some time. I covered them with burlap feed sacks. My granddaughters complained it made their legs itch so I gave in and put the seats from my other car in. That car will get more attention than a restored one. I think it makes them aproachable. I know when I am around a nice restored car Im nervous about getting too close. Dont want to damage it . I know the work that goes into them. The more photos of the Buick the better for me!

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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Kaiser » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:57 am

I can see why this is in the OT: not only does it have a waterpump, but it also has a distributor ! :lol:
Jeez what a find, another one saved, looking forward to see it run again...
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
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Robert Bente
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Robert Bente » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:41 am

Well...... I disassembled the rockers and pulled the lifters “roller type”, cleaned and greased. Very little to no moisture pits. All the valves as were the lifters were either sticky or stuck. Everything went together nicely. Tried to crank engine, it’s still stuck.
I think my next step is to drop the pan and scratch my head on what to do next. Thoughts? Ideas?
I would put this on the HCCA forum, but I would probably have to wait for a blue moon to get a response. I appreciate any ideas?
r/s Bob
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:38 am

Cleaning the pan is of course a good and wise idea. Make sure all moving parts of the motor has good fresh wet oil on it. Since the valve parts were gummy and sticky but not rusty, it is likely the cylinders should be okay also. After a crankcase cleanup and oiling, and letting the cylinders sit for about a week with a few good quirts of oil in each? Try gently rocking the car forward and backward in high gear. DO NOT force it! Often, an engine can loosen up in just a few minutes of rocking it.
Another possibility, You may be able to get a decent look inside the cylinders by removing the valve cages. I have never tried that with an early Buick, but some horseless era cars that can be done. Here again, DO NOT force them! They can become stuck and the cages can be broken if forced.

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Will Copeland

Post by FreighTer Jim » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:27 am

Call my friend Will Copeland in Florida @ 321-474-4102.

He may not answer - leave a voice message - then text him.


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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Duey_C » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:03 pm

Oh! A headless horseman!
Crazy notions from a madman: Add a boat-load more of MMO to the tops of the cylinders, watch below for the leaker's, they're good or closer. I've read about fellas using a hydraulic jack on the rods underneath to use the weight of the front end to move a stuck piston.
Heard of gas engine guys fitting a grease Zerk into the spark plug hole, filling with grease, then a pump a day or whatever. That's a couple thou psi I believe.
Here's what I've had setting for a few months. Trying to force 1,000 psi hydraulic oil down the oiler tube around the piston to soften the rust.
Has worked yet.
P1010004.JPG
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by david_dewey » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:52 pm

the water pump and distributor are driven off the camshaft gear, which MAY be fiber. I will be willing to bet that the water pump shaft is frozen, causing your problem. The most knowledgeable Buick person on this forum that I know of is Erik Barrett--so ask him. Be very careful about that camshaft timing gear they are almost made of Unobtainium.
the other thing, if you have to get down that far, is to be VERY careful to not let the pistons go up in the cylinder beyond where the crank moves them, as the upper part of the cylinder where the valves are is larger in diameter than the cylinder, and the head is NOT removable. Push a piston up too far and the ring will pop out of its groove, and then you are stuck! New piston time!
T'ake care,
David Dewey

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Erik is also a good choice

Post by FreighTer Jim » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:01 am

Erik in Auburn , CA is also a good choice
@ 530-863-7579


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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Duey_C » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:02 pm

Just found this Bob! An inspirational set of tube videos perhaps? An original '18 just woke up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIPmxELliK4
Excuse if out of place. Perhaps some useful info watching along his path for yours.
Goll, they sound real nice.
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by ironhorse » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:24 pm

Bob the impellers in those water pumps are few and far between. I bought this one at a yard sale in the bottom of a box thinking it would fit my Buick but it is too big,If it will fit yours let me know.
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Good luck with the project :D
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Dallas Landers » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:58 pm

One pack nut may be left hand thread on the water pump also.


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Robert Bente
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Robert Bente » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:35 am

Thank you all for your input and insight. I took 4 days off the project and went fishing. I guess I like frustration.
I pulled the 40 lb. oil pan off and found an inch worth of black polenta on the bottom. Still trying to figure out the oil pump disassembly. So far all nuts and bolts have come off easily.
It’s interesting what Fords competition was doing, for a few hundred dollars more you get an oil pump, water pump, starter/generator, speedometer, 3 speeds, external and internal brakes, what maybe an air compressor?
Just a lot of extras that can break in my opinion, but nice when working.
r/s Bob
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Rich Eagle » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:27 am

That oil is fun to dig out. My Maxwell apparently used the same stuff. ;O)
When did I do that?


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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Rich Bingham » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:26 am

Thanks for letting us watch over your shoulder!
Great fun to see and watch your progress. What a wonderful find this car is !
"Get a horse !"

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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Rich Eagle » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:08 pm

What Rich said.
When did I do that?


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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Dallas Landers » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:29 pm

Oil pump? Water what? The key word in speedometer is speed. Were talking about a model T there.

Hey thanks for the update and Im waiting for more. What fun!


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Robert Bente
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Robert Bente » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:13 am

I’ve been making slow progress, but progress nonetheless. Water pump and starter generator shaft now have some back and forth movement. Engine is still stuck. I’ve talked with Erik B. and he recommended looking into the cylinder head with a borescope, so I’m waiting on delivery. Hopeful I’ll be able to use this $20 piece of high tech. I’ve pulled the manifolds off, and of course, a small piece is broken on one of the mountings. The marvel vacuum carburetor will not be as simple as the holly G to overhaul. All the moving parts and pieces are either stuck or very sticky, but not from rust.
r/s Bob
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:27 am

Progress, even slow, is GOOD!


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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by BHarper » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:25 pm

Hi Robert,

A few years ago an acquaintance bought a similar ('18 or '20??) Buick. Unrestored, very original and correct. It's engine was stuck, also. After some probing, he concluded that the waterpump was seized. On his car the the shaft from the distributor through the H2O pump and to the timing gear is ONE piece. He elected to cut the shaft on both sides of the pump to then easily remove the pump and rebuilt it.
He source a pair of suitable couplers to allow reassembly of the shafting and was back in business.

That repair may not appeal to you, but it might be food for thought.
Good luck with your project, Bill


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Robert Bente
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Robert Bente » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:05 pm

An update. I let this thing sit thru the heat of summer. Occasionally I would look at it, and think, Xijnb.
I payed $4000 for this thing, based on: 6 cylinder, 3 speed, overhead valves, and the challenge of not knowing much about mechanics.
Remember, the engine was seized, and there was 70 years of dried caked, encrusted, petrified grease.
I hope to have an update soon. I’ve learned a lot, the most being that folks that are in the know, have passed, or are retired and part time. I wish I was a younger man, and they were too.
r/s Bob Bente


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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Loftfield » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:39 am

Definitely keep it as is. Just how many museum-perfect cars do we need? How many barn-finds are left out there to be enjoyed as such? You can enter the car in AACA HPOF class to get your trophy. Historic Preservation of Original Features.

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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Duey_C » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:15 am

Haha! I wish I were younger too and I'm only 55 Bob!
Update us as you see fit, on your own time or as things progress on your beautiful Buick.
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated


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Robert Bente
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:19 pm
First Name: Robert
Last Name: Bente
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 runabout, 1921 touring, 1915 touring
Location: Redding, Ca.
MTFCA Number: 49948

Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Robert Bente » Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:40 am

Well, if it was easy, everyone would be into old car restorations. After months of searching, I found NOS .050 oversized rings. The pistons were oversized .042.
The starter generator worked after cleaning and adjusting brushes.
After carefully sizing rings end gaps, ball honing bores with 45 degree hatch, lapping valves, making new gaskets, adjusting rod cap clearances, etc. I reassembled.
Upon attempting a start, no luck, not even a puff or pop. Rechecked everything, timing, spark, fuel etc. still nothing.
I did a compression check, and found it only had 20 lbs in all cylinders. So I made a spark plug hole adapter for my compressor, and found even at 20lbs I would get blow by venting out the oil filler.
I used a lite coating of 30 weight oil on rings and cylinder bore before reassembly.

I’m now in the process of disassembling, again, in order to clean and coat the cylinder bores with a product called “Quick Seat”.
Has anyone ever used this, or have other suggestions other than Bon Ami?
Also, I’m looking for four, 34” x 4” roller tires. If anyone has or knows of anybody that has some, it would be much appreciated.
Stay safe and sane.
r/s Bob


Scott_Conger
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:27 pm

Bob

were the rings a firm sliding fit in the piston grooves?

That's an awful lot of blowby to simply be accounted by the OD of the rings. Your ring sizes were very close to the bore size.
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured

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Duey_C
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Duey_C » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:48 pm

This may sound silly but the old timer mechanic we had said to use two cycle gas to start a fresh engine. So my brother did that with a fresh 340 Chrysler that was bucking him.
An old tractor book here says this: Before starting the engine "If your engine is new or has been standing idle for some time, pour approximately a 1/4 pint of engine oil into each cylinder through the spark plug holes and turn the engine over two or three times."
That'd be about a half cup on a 4-1/2 inch bore so vary accordingly. Perhaps it needed a wake up shot of oil?
Warned ya it may sound silly.
Keep us up to date and thank you!
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated


Topic author
Robert Bente
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:19 pm
First Name: Robert
Last Name: Bente
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 runabout, 1921 touring, 1915 touring
Location: Redding, Ca.
MTFCA Number: 49948

Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Robert Bente » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:31 am

After much head scratching, and a lot of time, this thing is now running. I learned that some journeys don’t necessarily involve travel.
After pulling the cylinder head a second time, solo without a hoist, I used a size hone and straightened the bores out. This involved removing up to .010 to remove the taper and some ovaling spots. That took about an hour per hole. I then installed another set of NOS oversized rings and filed the end gaps at .010.
After reassembly, a local gentleman gave me some tires, so I was able to tow start it. It rumbled to a roar for the first time in 70 years, and I was able to drive it around the block. It’s amazing that the clutch and transmission still work, as do the brakes.
My sole goal with this car, was to see if I could get it to run and drive it around the block. I thought I could do this in a month, but it has been a year. My journey with this car is over and it’s now ready for someone to take it to the next step.
It’s listed on Sacramento Craigslist.
I now feel comfortable, if not semi competent to attempt a rebuild of my 1908 Buick model G.
Thank you all for your comments, suggestions and following along.
r/s Bob


Scott_Conger
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:03 am

Robert

fabulous that you followed up with the SOLUTION to the issue, and for even finishing it up. To simply sell it again certainly makes that effort a labor of love, as the time spent won't monetize very well, will it?

Good for you in seeing this through.
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured


Wayne Sheldon
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:23 am

Wow Robert! Quite an accomplishment! I thought maybe you would be keeping this one. However it seems we cannot keep them all, can we.
Good luck with the model G. The learning curve working on the '16 should be of great value on the G. And the G is likely a bit less complicated and lighter.

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Duey_C
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Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Duey_C » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:34 pm

That's good news Bob!
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated

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Michael Peternell
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* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: TT gas truck, T tractor conversions, '15 touring, '17 speedster, '26 16 valve speedster
Location: Albany mn

Re: 1916 Buick barn find

Post by Michael Peternell » Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:41 pm

Robert Bente wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:41 am
Well...... I disassembled the rockers and pulled the lifters “roller type”, cleaned and greased. Very little to no moisture pits. All the valves as were the lifters were either sticky or stuck. Everything went together nicely. Tried to crank engine, it’s still stuck.
I think my next step is to drop the pan and scratch my head on what to do next. Thoughts? Ideas?
I would put this on the HCCA forum, but I would probably have to wait for a blue moon to get a response. I appreciate any ideas?
r/s Bob
04B2B0C1-5052-484D-AC5C-6449CB1FF4B4.jpeg
I apologise to the model t guys but if I wanted to lift a hood to show you my two cars engines, !t would be that one!

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