My "New" Lathe!

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My "New" Lathe!

Post by AdminJeff » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:03 pm

Well... not so new, but new to me. 1943 South Bend 9" bench lathe. I bought it for $400. It was pretty rough when I got it yesterday, but it's got a 4 jaw chuck, and quick release. thanks to Robert Weitzel for bringing it down from Auburn and dropping it off!

good news though - after spending all day in my shop, I cleaned it up, replaced all the wiring, lubed everything, tore apart the apron and cleaned and lubed it, and now it all works. Forwards and backwards.

My vocabulary isn’t there yet but the threaded twist bar that is perpendicular to the bed that adjusts that part of the platform throw needs to be replaced. Someone messed up the threads and bolt at the end. It works for now, but I’ll want to replace that at some point.

Isn't it fun having a new toy like this? The possibilities are endless.

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:19 pm

Tools like this open up whole worlds of fabrication to the fancier of old junk !
More people are doing it today than ever before !


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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:08 pm

That was an extrordinary purchase for the price. The large-dial cross-feed is worth $200 as parts alone. You're missing the compound for it, but are readily available on ebay, as is virtually every replacement part for that lathe

That looks like a Model A which is a nice version of that size, with a power fine-feed clutch as well as threading 1/2 nuts.

Proper lubrication is South Bend "A", "B", and "C" oils. These can also be purchased in small quantities on ebay as well.

BUY the proper lube and then look at either lubricant chart here for proper lubrication:
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by HornsRus » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:19 pm

its a lot newer than mine south bend says mine is before 1915.records before that were lost in a fire.charley


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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by 2nighthawks » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:39 pm

I don't suppose this comment will be of much value but for what it's worth,.....I took "Machine Shop" in high school in suburban Chicago in the '50's, and even 60+ years later, I'd recognize that lathe anywhere! There were about 10 or 12 South bend lathes identical to yours in that high school machine shop. Based on that, I'd say that you've probably got a pretty darn good "all-around all purpose" lathe for home shop use!


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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by 2nighthawks » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:44 pm

......by the way, I believe that particular part you mentioned is called the "lead screw", used of course for cutting screw threads and other such power feed operations. Maybe you can somehow "restore" the threads or whatever on the present lead screw, because I'thinking that with today's prices, that might be a pretty "spendy" part! FWIW,.....harold

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by AdminJeff » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:55 pm

Scott_Conger wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:08 pm
That was an extrordinary purchase for the price. The large-dial cross-feed is worth $200 as parts alone. You're missing the compound for it, but are readily available on ebay, as is virtually every replacement part for that lathe

That looks like a Model A which is a nice version of that size, with a power fine-feed clutch as well as threading 1/2 nuts.

Proper lubrication is South Bend "A", "B", and "C" oils. These can also be purchased in small quantities on ebay as well.

BUY the proper lube and then look at either lubricant chart here for proper lubrication:
Great info guys. While I've cleaned them, I need to replace both the belts, esp the leather one as its frayed quite badly and is prone to slipping. Any idea of a source for those? Here's a pic of the quick release, compound and the 4jaw chuck that came with it.

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Henry K. Lee » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:31 pm

OK, now go and get a cot, coffee pot, small fridge, and other comfort things because these are good bad habits. You will get so engrossed into a project you will lose all track of time! Ask me how I know!

Happy for you Steve! Let the fun begin.

Hank


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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Dropacent » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:51 pm

Congrats Jeff. If you read history, the south bend twins had a strong connection to Thomas A Edison and Henry Ford. Sad to me the name is now owned by an importer of Chinese crap.
Some days I can’t remember my name, but as with all important life events, I can remember buying my little 9” southbend about 1977 for $600. That was a fair bit of money in 1977. I think it is a 1936, and over these many years I have added every bell and whistle to it. A couple I have never used, such as the taper attachment, or the mica undercutter, but they are here. It started out a model B but I added a quick change gearbox many years ago. It was probably worn out according to some standards when I bought her, but I can get easily within .001 still. I just recently adjusted my headstock ( there are some great Utube videos re/ SB lathes) and the runout is like factory new. I’ve probably made more money with her than any tool I’ve ever bought, and would rather lose my right arm. Recently Scott Conger sent me a nice SB turret tool post and that along with the turret tailstock attachment, helped nicely with a recent run of carb parts. As he said, you can easily buy any part you need online, as people are always parting them out. How many 80+ year old machine tools can you say that about. Some may poopoo a small lathe like this, but for what I work on, only once in all these many years was I not able to fit a part in it. I had to hire out getting a flywheel machined. This old girl has paid for itself many, many times over. Enjoy your new baby !
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by jab35 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:12 pm

Jeff: This might be overkill, but they have nice stuff, https://pagebelting.com/

A few yrs back I rehabbed a 10K and obtained the drive belt from this source: https://www.squirreldaddy.com/South-Ben ... t-s/90.htm It's an inexpensive alternative to leather, ships in a day or two, but suits my needs for the infrequent and small parts lathe work I do. Best, jb

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Henry K. Lee » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:17 pm

Tim,

I had a little lathe like that years back and regret selling it but how much good stuff can a man hoard and have room to work! LOL

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:31 pm

Tim

can't tell you how tickled I am to see that tool post holder at work!

(Finally!)
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Jim_PTC_GA » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:38 pm

That's the exact model I trained on in high school. How exciting. In the 1980s the high school I went to had a vocational program to train machinists for work in the local carpet mills. In the end I joined the Air Force to further my machinist's skills but that is a different story.

Good score on the lathe!
Just give me time to Rust and I'll be good as new. :) Wabi-Sabi


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No no

Post by Dropacent » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:55 pm

I went to the university of hard knocks. I skipped a lot of classes and not smart enough to gradiate, but oh well. I usually only make a mistake once. I owned a real antique lathe before I bought my baby in 1977. I was using the compound, extended just about like this and snapped it right off. Only happened once, and if I had paid more attention in class, it might have never happened. You’ll be making chips before you know it, Jeff. Jump in and have fun. And yes, oil is your friend. Take Scott’s advice.
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:02 pm

James

nothing wrong with the belt you suggested...and I personally enjoy the quiet clickclickclick of the lacing (I know it makes some people nuts, but to me it's kind of soothing). Plus it will not likely stretch like leather will for the first few years...HAHA.

Myself, I still like the leather...the look and smell is right for my era South Bends ('34 and '43)

An interesting thing about the early South Bends is that before they went to bronze shells, the bearings are simply split cast iron. When adjusted properly, they run like butter (with proper oil!), are tremendously stiff and are FAR less likely to develop chatter on difficult cuts. Now, if you like your parts to look like Argyle socks, a lathe with worn or maladjusted ball bearings is just the thing for you!
Last edited by Scott_Conger on Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:07 pm

That quick change tool holder is about 1 size too large for that lathe. Not that it can't work, it will just be more cumbersome than it has to be. And, due to its large size compared to the compound it mounts on, it will add to the overhang that Tim refers to. Aside from any danger of breaking anything off, a large overhang will not support your tool well, which will lead to chatter and a rough cut. Always try to keep the tool as close to the center of the compound as possible. Enjoy!

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:50 pm

While lot of people poo-poo them I started with a long bed Atlas 9", but have swapped out the parts for a 10" with bearing head stock, the 9" had babbitt. I still need to change a few parts to use the cross feed but for now it works with the smaller diameter lead screw for carriage feed. I got mine up and running with min. work and jumped right in. Still learning. I am glad to see the area under someones lathe as messy as mine. Room to work safe but lot of clutter. :roll: Great buy and have fun with it.
Where are the threads on the lead screw messed up? If at the tail end, I think you will find you will seldom work at that end. I also suggest as others there are a lot of parts on Ebay. I have noted that there are a lot more lathes back east and prices reflect that, out west not so much, but sometimes the stars align.
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Duey_C » Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:00 am

Good lathes for what they are! Get that sweet boy sorted out and ready Jeff!
Charlie, what number is yours? 975 stands out here in the grudge. An '11 or so. :)
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by AdminJeff » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:51 am

Holy chipping cross-cut.... what did I start here! Such great comments from everyone. One generous member already pm'd me and is sending me the three oils, and he might even have a usable crossfeed screw. The videos on this lathe on Youtube are plentiful and really great, esp by a guy named tubalcain. While I like to drool over the pristine rebuilds some folks do, that's not what I'm after. He's just really practical, and shows how to get what's there disassembled, cleaned and working again.

And regarding the quickchange, it's just sitting there for the photo op!
Too big for this machine? Anyone have the right size for this machine they'd like to swap with me?

I just ordered a new belt as this one has seen better days. The screw I may need is for the cross bed (cross feed screw?), although it seems as the repair I did works for now. The end of the shaft was bent and much of the end threads stripped but I straightened it, chased the threads and the nut seems to be holding. The cross feed now goes from one end to the other very smoothly and there doesn't seem to be any perceptible play in the adjustment.

There's a lot of play in the compound rest adjustment knob, so that's my next part to tackle. A half a turn either way does nothing and I can push/pull the knob in and out what seems like 1/16". There must be a nut in there that's worn, the screw is worn, a washer is missing or there's some other adjustments??

The back drive gear has a broken tooth, but I'm told I'll likely never use that gear. It's in the top gearbox all the way at the back. One tooth is missing from the small end. It engages ok and works, but it's noisy when it hits that tooth.

I really need to take apart the quick change gear box and apron and clean them both. It's quit difficult to move the levers on them and the belts slip so badly that it's hard to say what shape theyre in. But the apron moves from end to end smoothly and the feed screw isn't worn, so I'm hoping for the best.

The main drive seemed to be binding after 30 seconds or so of running so I loosened the Allen screws on the top of the end bearings on both ends and oiled the bearings and now it turns freely.

I'll also need to find a new V belt next as the motor is down as far as it will go on the adjusters and the v belt is barely engaging. I see rebuild kits with all kinds of felt, but for the life of me I can't tell where it would all go...

This is almost as fun as working on the T!
And a whole new vocabulary comes with it.

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:43 pm

I came back to this thread because I double checked my 2 South Bend 9" lathes to compare some relative sizes. That said, I have to disagree with Jerry O regarding the Aloris-style tool post holder on your machine. It looks exactly like mine in size relationship and if it in fact is, it is an AXA size tool holder and is appropriate for your lathe. The next size up is BXA and that is entirely too large, but I really don't think yours is this size.

Now that I've read your last post:

1. YouTube's TubalCain is an outstanding source for Grandfatherly wisdom and outstanding videos on nearly any shop subject, without being hit with "WAZUP WAZUP YOU-TOOBERZZZZ?" You will learn a lot from this guy.

2. And finally, if you do any cut-off work (and you eventually will want to) the back-gear with the broken tooth is absolutely needed and should be replaced with a good used part. Using it in a pinch like that will eventually lead to a broken bull gear and now you're pulling the spindle and replacing yet another gear. Do yourself a favor and invest in this part soon and be done with it. Cutting off in the lathe is something many people give up on if they're using a lantern post on their lathe. You have to really know what you're doing. You're lucky...With a proper attachment for the tool post you have, it is a snap. Notwithstanding the Bible's Tubal Cain, there was, years ago, the Original Tubal Cain who had a years-running duel with a George Mason (?) I believe...both outstanding English Modelers whos words of wisdom I soaked up through ancient Model Engineer magazines. Tubal Cain's description of a proper cut-off sounded like "sizzling bacon" and by golly that was accurate. It's a beautiful thing when you can accomplish it.

If you have the coin, jump on this right away...use the entire assembly including the eccentric, since it's matched, and then sell your eccentric to recoup some cost...NOW! https://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-9-1 ... SwKAFd0w-2

By the way, that screw showing in your latest picture is to be removed and oil liberally applied to lubricate the back gear bushings prior to any use of it.
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Duey_C » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:17 am

I will argue only one point gentlemen. With a dose of back info.
I also have a missing tooth on 975's back gear shaft (perhaps imperative for some SB lathes-I do not know) and he never skips a beat.
This back gear shaft looks just like yours Jeff. A tooth gone.
Don't ask me how he doesn't mess with me but he doesn't. 975 is a 13 X 6 Har Har. 12-1/2 X 4 is more actual.
Tooth has been missing for a very long time.
Try him Jeff. Does he buck you?
Hehehe, I must use the back gears for threading or the belt slips bad.
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by d stroud » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:42 am

I don't have any idea how hard or expensive it would be to replace that gear, but that tooth can be welded up and ground to fit with a bit of work and care. I've rebuilt similar bull gears before on heavy equipment. You just have to know what welding rod to use and take the time to grind them to fit. It is doable if you have to. As an old highway contractor told me once back in the early '80's when I was building up track pads for a Link Belt LS 90 dragline and I was trying to get them as close as possible as new, he told me, "it's just a "f******g old dragline, don't worry about it". Just get it as close as you can, it ain't rocket science. ;) ;) JMHO Dave
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by AdminJeff » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:35 am

The gear works but I hear it.i might have a line on another one...

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:41 am

True story:

Age 15, I'm working with a clock repairman who I later apprenticed for. His friend loans him a Logan Lathe. I try to take the chuck off by jamming a screwdriver between gear teeth. Gear tooth and chuck are simultaneously liberated. *GADZOOKS DID I JUST DO THAT?????* A humiliating lesson, and carelessness that I never, ever repeated. As a lover of machinery, and especially OLD machinery, that error in judgement haunts me to this day.

Age 26, ad in newspaper: "Logan lathe for sale". I call the number in the ad. Same lathe. Original owner. I buy it and now own my foolish mistake.

Age 30, after heavy use and noisy gear, I am parting off stainless steel. More teeth are liberated and I now have two gears to replace. Logan Actuator, still in business, only wants $700 for them. How nice.

Age 45, I discover eBay. Used gears purchased for about $250. So it only took 30 years and a lot of money to fix a "stupid kid" mistake.

My lathe ran a long time with a broken tooth, but was noisy in back gear until it crashed. It just hums now and that is so much more satisfying.
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My "New" Lathe!

Post by Dropacent » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:58 am

Back gears are your friend, and eBay Is also your friend. If you wipe out your spindle gear, the job just got a LOT larger. Get a new gear, they are on every day of the week. You can buy nearly every part every day of the year on eBay. The benefit of the popularity of these machines. If it was a 1905 henway, you probably would have to fix it, but because of it being a SB, it’s an easy cheap solution.

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by AdminJeff » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:55 am

Ok,ok. Nothing like beating a dead horse.
Looks like I'm going to have to post more parts for sale and bid on a back gear.

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Dropacent » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:33 pm

All just friendly suggestions. I’m glad another one of these being put to great use.

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Mark Gregush » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:39 am

There are a number of them on Ebay now. I would say not bad as far as cost goes;
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... r&_sacat=0
Heck the correct lead screw for my Atlas with shipping is about the same or more with shipping.
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Walter Higgins » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:01 am

Even though it's a small one, it can still hurt you. Flat belt lathes are a good place to start because they have the potential to slip vs. a gear head that will eat your lunch. Take the time to study up on safety and try to get some hands-on instruction. Wear safety glasses. Do not wear gloves. Do not wear long sleeves or loose clothing. Do not wrap your hands around anything that is spinning. Mount a kill switch that you can hit with your knee in the event your hands get tied up. Also, watch this video (it's not gory):

https://youtu.be/35MSmwlcth4?t=177

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Duey_C » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:12 pm

Another "Dare I post this"... :)
Not beatin' that poor horse Jeff, we're just excited to see you have a new friend. :)
A lathe is a great friend just as long as he's respected like Walter suggests.

I grumbled a little Walter at your post but then was completely appalled that someone deemed that video "This video may be inappropriate for some users." "Sign in to confirm your age."
THEN I signed in. Yuck. NOT gory but yuck. I worked with a US made lathe like that (Lodge and Shipley/US Navy) and always respected the tar out of that big guy. My old friend would and still gets right down there with a file, at 1000 rpm's, right at the chuck.
He probably has a 30 or 40 horse motor on the back and will muck you up if you get too close...
Tal Nyan posted this from where? An Eastern European country as the operators and crew sure are not oriental?
Very interesting video!
Makes me happy our belts will just slip with a half horse motor down below. Truly.
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:59 pm

A kid in my woodshop class in Junior High took a 6" patch of scalp off his skull
with a drill press. A lathe will do the same thing. Those spinning parts will win
every time.

One can never be TOO careful with machinery. Some kinds more than others.
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Kaiser » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:13 am

When i was a ships engineer in my younger years whenever we got a new sparkling white coverall we were told to leave it overnight in a bucket with a light bleach solution, the idea was to weaken the fabric so it would tear if you got a leg or a sleeve caught in something revolving, instead of it pulling your arm or leg in and mauling it :o

Getting back to the subject, we have a 1943 Southbend in the shop, it came from a workshop truck from the big one (WW2) hence the lightweight cabinet under it, i just love it, and all parts are still available readily, great machine !
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When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
'23 Huckster, '66 CJ5 daily driver

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Kaiser
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Kaiser » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:20 am

Oops how did that happen ? sorry for the upsidedown picture :lol:
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
'23 Huckster, '66 CJ5 daily driver

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AdminJeff
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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by AdminJeff » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:22 am

I installed the new belt and rebuilt the entire apron over the weekend, and wow what a difference! Tubalcain's video on this was a big help. It now has a working powered cross feed and the feed change lever is nice and smooth. And the belt doesn't slip. I also found a guy on eBay who has a boatload of parts for these lathes and we struck up a conversation. I'm getting a "new" back gear directly from him and a few other items. I'll tackle rebuilding the main gearbox over thanksgiving.

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1921 Touring


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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by Burger in Spokane » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:02 pm

Jeff, have you ever taken on a job, doing it just "half-axxed" ? :lol:
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by AdminJeff » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:50 pm

Burger in Spokane wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:02 pm
Jeff, have you ever taken on a job, doing it just "half-axxed" ? :lol:
Not unless there is a good reason! I’m taking my time on this machine both in refurbing it as well as learning how to use it. I have a feeling I’m going to have it a long time. And it feels like I have a good one to start with so it’s s worthwhile investment.

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Re: My "New" Lathe!

Post by tdump » Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:37 pm

I bought a old Sheldon lathe back in 2011 or so.I have used it very little. But I did modify some spring perchs for my speedster project with it. I had thought about getting rid of it but then,I am willing to bet there would be something I would be able to use it for come up in a short time after I sold it.
I learned a valuable lesson,just being able to buy the tool,does not mean you will know how to use it. What little I have done has been by trial and error and a few broke "bits" or whatever you call them cutter thingys.I bought them at Harbor freight so no real money lost.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

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