1914 t speedster

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Michael Peternell
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1914 t speedster

Post by Michael Peternell » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:50 pm

https://nixonauctioneers.proxibid.com/F ... n/57154706
Wow!
This sure seems like it was a deal!

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George House
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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by George House » Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:11 pm

And what makes it a ‘14 ? The hood former perhaps or maybe the repop oil filler cap. So they made bitsas way back in the 50s too.
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George Hand
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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by George Hand » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:41 pm

'14 may have been the number the Dart landed on on the wall calendar.


Jerry VanOoteghem
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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:44 pm

The axles have been narrowed. Looks like a scary drive.

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Michael Peternell
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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by Michael Peternell » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:49 pm

George House wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:11 pm
And what makes it a ‘14 ? The hood former perhaps or maybe the repop oil filler cap. So they made bitsas way back in the 50s too.
Won't argue that a bit! Just that there's a lot of bitsas sold that brought a lot more with absolutely no provenance. I thought the
chassis modifications were interesting to say the least!

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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by Kaiser » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:18 am

Well it may be a bitsa/parts salad, but it is a great story and something unique !
Nice score for whoever got it, but yeah probably a scary ride :o ,
Love it ! :lol:
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
'23 Huckster, '66 CJ5 daily driver


1902Crest
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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by 1902Crest » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:46 pm

Hi All, My name is Mike West and I just discovered this thread about my Model T racer that was narrowed to 42 in track back in the day. I bought the car back a few weeks ago. I sold it in 2010 and the gentleman from Texas I sold it to contacted me and said its now for sale again. He had consigned it to the auction that you see the link to here. The car is a period piece that when I got it almost 50 years ago was incomplete but not rusty. It had been stored upstairs in a horse barn since the 1920s. When I got it in 1972 I used what parts I could scrounge up without much money. I was 14 years old. I didnt need this car as I have a barn full now of non Fords Brass to 60s, but something about its history being built here in town, run on the fairgrounds track here in town and being my first build , I had to have it back. I remember laying out the tin seat skin and my good friend Bob Mahoney helping me roll the bead around the perimeter with a old Pexco metal crimper that he converted the head with dies he made.
When I ran the car on the same track in Hemlock NY where it had run when it was concieved, it was indeed squirrely in the corners, The ass-end wanted to come around and pass the front end. I would like to buy some 21 inch knobby cork style tires. We had a a horse pulled ground driven sickle bar mower mower on the farm that had these very tires but the were so rotten , when I dismounted them they were worthless.
I am going to be posting some period photos of the original builder Mr harry Ward of Livonia NY in one of his cars he built and a scan of the original artist rendering from Bastian Brothers novelty company that was commissioned to supply body tags for Wards bodys. At this point Im open to suggestions on how to re-restore my little one man Ford. The oak firewall and platform I built when I was a kid no longer satifies me.... PLEASE FEEL FREE TO OFFER ADVICE! thank you Mike West Livonia NY


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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by 1902Crest » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:09 pm

Here is the tag Bastian Bros of Rochester NY proposed to Mr Ward . Its not known if in fact he ever had any made. I will have one made for sure.
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bastian bros. 2.jpeg
bastian bros 1.jpeg


1902Crest
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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by 1902Crest » Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:47 pm

any suggestions?


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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:49 am

First suggestion.
Post the history as you know it, and numerous photos here! A lot of people (including me) don't like to follow links to sites we are not familiar with. I did look at the link, but only after you managed to pique my curiosity and personal interest in era speedsters. It may be best to begin a new and well titled thread under your name.
Second. Be ready for some flack. There simply isn't enough 1914 there to call the car a 1914. That being said in spite of the fact that many era speedsters were built up years after they were new cars, and actually were originally much earlier than they appear to be. Make that a part of the car, it is a part of the car's history.

One of the speedsters I used to have, was built from a 1919 chassis. It had been modified and updated over several years, and appeared to have ended up about 1926 with a 1925 firewall and body changes. It also had a later post production replacement engine, originally heavily modified into a high powered flathead racing engine. My long-winded usual for the car was to say "Built upon a 1919 chassis, as sits represents how it likely appeared about 1926, with a later yet replacement racing engine." Long winded, yes, but accurate.

Look over the car's history. Decide what point you want to restore the car to represent. This is a common thing with historic racers, both well known, and unknown. Well known racing cars are often restored to how they looked at one specific known race for which enough photos exist to make it right. And usually a race it placed very well in!

The current wheels of course are 1926 or later. The gasoline tank 1920 or newer. Several other things not quite era right.
One thing to remember, most era home-built speedsters and racing cars were not finely finished. They tended to be a bit crude, and usually somewhat unfinished.
Some things? I would run with what it had when you got it if that is an option? Wheels? I would recommend re-spoking wooden spoke wheels. I would recommend whichever it had before, Demountable rims? Or non-demountable rim clinchers. Wooden spoke wheels were often used on era racing cars, and are much stronger and more resilient than most people believe.

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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by AndyClary » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:16 am

While I’m certainly no expert I do know a couple things about speedsters.

#1-Speedsters are highly individual, be gentle in your critique.

#2-All Model T speedsters are”bitsas”

#3-Model year is fluid. You can pick a year, or maybe it’s just the title you have. I have a friend whose speedster is registered as a 1912. It’s a Rootlieb body but that’s the year the builder picked. My Mercury is a late production, #1249, but is registered as a 1919 because that is the chassis it ended up on.

#4-Since I have known guys who had T speedsters in the 30’s you can reasonably expect repairs and upgrades to include newer parts.

Andy


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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by Kevin Pharis » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:50 am

Well said Andy!

My speedster is registered as a “19”, but I started calling it a “22” years ago. When I would tell people that it was a “19”... they would ask “19 what...?”🙄


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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by 1902Crest » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:36 pm

I appreciate the comments. My car was indeed built from parts by Mr Ward. The parts were salvaged from the Heaths Ford Garage in Livonia, NY. Its known that Ward worked at this garage starting around 1915. He was born in 1895 and was always a car man the end . When I acquired the chassis it was assembled with no body , but the remains of a simple wood platform. It had no "SPEED equipment " . It had dried out wood wheels that were not usable. I installed the wire wheels as at the time I thought they looked great and thats what I could find. As for the year 1914, thats what I was told it was by Ward. I know it has parts well into the mid 1920s on it. The narrowed and shortened chassis is period and to be its the charm of the car. Ive not seen another narrowed job but have seen a few with the shortened frame.
Has anyone else seen a narrowed T? Again thanks for the advise , This winter I plan to disassemble it and get the car corrected like it was when I acquired it. Mike

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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by Kaiser » Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:29 am

I think it's a sweet thing, and a great story !
I hope you build it back to how it was when it was raced, and not make it too 'pretty'
Most race cars that are restored look no way near as scruffy and cobbled together as they were when raced in the day, simply because there was neither time nor money to polish and 'spit shine' a car, it just had to be fast and that was the only consideration, period.
Congrats on being able to buy it back !
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
'23 Huckster, '66 CJ5 daily driver


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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by 1902Crest » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:58 pm

Here is the letterhead Mr Ward had back in the day. Also another shot of the Bastian Brothers tag he was going to have made for his special cars. I like having this original paper items to go along with what I was told when I was just a kid. I thought Id share this tonight.
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harry ward  letterhead  FORD WORK.jpeg


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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by 1902Crest » Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:14 pm

Still looking for some 21 inch knobby tires. Ive chased down all leads.... nothing.


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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by babychadwick » Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:56 pm

They are hard to find, the pair I found took a while to source. They have never been mounted but are old. I think they are some of the last made. Next time I get to them I will see if I can find a date, maybe that will help you in your search.


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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by Allan » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:14 am

With 21" drop centre wire wheels, you may find a motor cycle knobby tyre to suit. Worth a look.

Allan from down under.


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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by 1902Crest » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:34 pm

babychadwick wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:56 pm
They are hard to find, the pair I found took a while to source. They have never been mounted but are old. I think they are some of the last made. Next time I get to them I will see if I can find a date, maybe that will help you in your search.
Chad, Thanks ... are you saying that you may be interested in selling them?? Mike


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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by 1902Crest » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:47 pm

Here are some agricultural 500/21 inch dirt tires. Maybe these would work out if they were cut with notches to resemble corks . The tractor pulling folks cut new tires everyday.
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500 21 inch  dirt tires.jpg
Last edited by 1902Crest on Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by babychadwick » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:52 am

No but if there is any info I might be able to pull off of them to help you source some Im glad to help.


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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by 1902Crest » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:04 pm

OK , thanks. I reread your post previously made and see thats what you meant.


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Re: 1914 t speedster

Post by babychadwick » Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:21 pm

1902Crest wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:04 pm
OK , thanks. I reread your post previously made and see thats what you meant.
Looks like I MAY have found you a pair. Ill round up the contact details and message them to you.

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