Exhaust Manifold Repair

[SurveyKing]

Can someone give me a recommendation for a person who can repair a small crack in an exhaust manifold port?
This is a 1909 Part T511. Thanks

See pics.

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[Kevin Pharis]

Check out Lock-N-Stich in Turlock, CA. If they can’t fix it, nobody can. They have told me before that exhaust manifolds can be particularly sensitive subjects. Something to do with the carbon from the exhaust gasses changing the base metal over time.

[TeveS-Nor Cal]

I believe they have closed up shop.

[Craig Leach]

Hi Danial,
Old castings are hard to weld & it will be noticeable when done. If you have a lathe or a friend with one you might consider making a
long gland ring that will fit in past the end of the crack( trim it down on the bottom so to not restrict the flow of exhaust) Pack the
circumference of the inside of the manifold with refractory puttie ( sometimes sold as a exhaust repair in a tube ) Remove any excess
& install the manifold. Make sure the gland doesn't fit tight so it will not expand & further crack the manifold. That manifold has made
it 116 years it probably won't crack much more in the next 10-20 years.
Craig.

[Mike Silbert]

The Lock-N-Stitch closed comment got my attention so I had to look it up.
I used a few for one project and know of several other instances where they have been used.
I really liked the design and engineering behind it.
They are plugs that pull the metal together rather than spread it like a normal tapered plug.
The only thing I did not like was price and availability.

Cast iron gets weird with lots of heat cycles and carbon atmosphere like an exhaust manifold.
It takes a lot of experience to deal with it.

My first thought was a sleeve on the outside to squeeze it rather than inside to spread it.

Back to Loc-N-Stitch
Their web site https://www.wartsila.com/marine/service ... ex-repairs
says they fully merged into Wartsila
They have an office in Houston maybe talk to them about who can do it for you.
I am saddened by the possibility that another resource may be drying up.
Mike

Screenshot 2026-02-15 082705.jpg (12.77 KiB) Viewed 1450 times

[Dan Hatch]

So can I still buy Lock n Stitch products? It keeps sending me to that new company and I don’t see how to get the product like I did before. ?????

[Lil Teezy]

Pesky spot for a crack, and that part isnt lying around in piles anymore…
Y’all think a piece that old or a manifold like it can be brazed or is it too “fluffy” a metal? Meaning brittle and porous, partially oxidized and really old…. Maybe silicon bronze or brass or stainless rod? Definitely seen parts made of cast steel and cast iron with worse damage than that restored to function. Personally, I would try the tig torch and silicon bronze rod after soaking the manifold in an oven for a while along with a fixture to minimize any warpage. Vintage machinery shops or old tractor restoration experts near you would be a good place to find a guy with this type of experience. Good luck! -Chris, in Boulder.

[TXGOAT2]

It might be best to run the manifold as-is. Repairing iron castings is fast becoming a lost art, and old exhaust manifolds are among the most challenging of cast iron repair jobs. There is, or used to be, a casting repair shop in Kansas that had furnace welding capability. I don't know the name of it or if it's still operating. The antique gas engine and antique tractor people may know of a resource. I've seen some beautiful repairs that were done long ago to broken cast iron machine tool parts using brass or nickel alloy. But exhaust manifolds are a different proposition due to extreme heat cycling in service and deterioration of the metal itself due to the high heat. T-era gasoline often contained sulfur, which probably contributed to damaging the exhaust valves and exhaust manifolds.

[Dan Hatch]

Lock n Stitch made kits to repair Cummings exhaust seats. Can’t get much hotter than that in an engine.

[John kuehn]

You can use a piece of pipe turned down enough, made into a sleeve and tapered just enough to go in far enough to go past the crack. That should seal it enough and save the manifold for a few more years. This wouldn’t be hard to do for a good machinist. Hope this can help you.

[Mike Silbert]

This an off the wall thought based on no practical experience on my part.
I have no first or second hand experience with this type or process.

What would happen if one of the high tech ceramic or other exhaust coatings were applied to this manifold?
Would it help tie the crack together?
Would blocking the heat stop it from getting worse or leaking?
A tiny hole at the end of the crack can stop it, would this fill the hole in?

It's a thought, but would it actually work?
If it worked that would be a slick repair.
I don't know the answers and hope someone who has real experience will respond.
Mike

[John kuehn]

The part in question has a good chance of being repaired and for a purist this is important for a very early T. The good thing the T manifolds are being reproduced but a little different in appearance than the very early ones and the reproduced exhaust pipe will need to be used with it according to Lang’s. That being said that may not be a good thing for a purist that has a very early T.

The ceramic sealers that are mentioned may be a solution for the repair instead of using heat to repair it.
The old trick of stopping the crack ahead of the crack has been around many years to stop a crack will work.

Years ago my brother-in -law bought a 38 Case Tractor really cheap that had a 3” crack in it leading up one of the exhaust clamp studs. He repaired the crack using a brass rod and flux using Oxy-Acet. It was still holding when he sold it. That’s the old time method of repairing cracked cast iron. But he didn’t have a 09 T either.

[RajoRacer]

I've use Belzona epoxy on T bock exhaust seats with reasonable results - it is an expensive 2 part epoxy that is machinable once cured - something to consider. Early, useable exhaust manifolds are few & far between !

[TXGOAT2]

Search: "Brecko Corporation".
Brecko Corporation, Abilene, Texas


I have no experience with this product or the vendor, but the claims made for it are very interesting. (Magna alloy rods for welding cast iron)

[ModelTWoods]

As has been stated, extreme heat may, or does, things to cast iron manifolds that heat may not do to iron cylinder heads, but I would recommend contacting Midwest Cylinder Head Repair in Nevada, Iowa. They are experts in cast iron cylinder head repair and have been in business since 1947 (one year older than ME). I have had TWO cylinder heads repaired by them; a Simmons and a Ricardo and they did a beautiful and satisfactory repair on both. If they can repair a cast manifold, they will tell you with NO bullshit. If they can't, they'll tell you so. As I understand their process, when they repaired my heads, they heat the cast iron in a mini furnace and weld the item while its still cherry red hot. After repairing, they will pressure test the repair (cylinder head) and machine the item to make sure it fits like new. As T exhaust manifolds can warp from even engine operation, I would remind them of this fact when contacting them. If I were in your shoes, they are the first company that I would contact. Their phone number is 515-382-2791.

[Allan]

I would suggest taking the manifold to a respected specialist welding shop for their opinion. Perhaps they will recommend one of the fixes suggested here, but which one? You have points in your favour. The crack is not under stress and is in the relatively coolest part of the manifold. In my limited experience with a welding service here, I would not be surprised if they suggested bronze welding, following an all-over preheaat, followed by a comtrolled cool down.

Allan from down under.

[Rich P. Bingham]

No one commented whether the manifold is possibly also warped - that adds another layer of difficulty for putting it back in service.

[RajoRacer]

I would have to assume it is NOT, or would have to wonder why go to the expense & trouble to have it repaired.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

As has been stated, extreme heat may, or does, things to cast iron manifolds that heat may not do to iron cylinder heads, but I would recommend contacting Midwest Cylinder Head Repair in Nevada, Iowa. They are experts in cast iron cylinder head repair and have been in business since 1947 (one year older than ME). I have had TWO cylinder heads repaired by them; a Simmons and a Ricardo and they did a beautiful and satisfactory repair on both. If they can repair a cast manifold, they will tell you with NO bullshit. If they can't, they'll tell you so. As I understand their process, when they repaired my heads, they heat the cast iron in a mini furnace and weld the item while its still cherry red hot. After repairing, they will pressure test the repair (cylinder head) and machine the item to make sure it fits like new. As T exhaust manifolds can warp from even engine operation, I would remind them of this fact when contacting them. If I were in your shoes, they are the first company that I would contact. Their phone number is 515-382-2791.

Best advice, so far^^^

[Allan]

Jerry, they sound just the ticket!
The spare block I have for my 1912 van was a low mileage motor which threw a rod, resulting in a hole in the skirt and a slot up the side of no. 1 cylinder. The specialist welder had me make two patch pieces from steel plate. These
he bronze welded in place
He had an igloo of firebricks built on a firebrick hearth. He would distmantle a few bricks on one side and put the offended item inside, repkace the bricks and use a big gas fired rose to heat the igloo from below. When he was satisfied things were hot enough, out came the few bricks, the welds were done and the bricks replaced. The rose was turned way down and left on overnight for a tapered cool down. Magic stuff. We lost him some years ago.

Allan from down under.

[TXGOAT2]

Cast iron can be spray-welded. The part is cleaned, prepared, heated, then powdered iron is sprayed on it within a flame. This builds up new iron that is fused to the original.

[love2T's]

Check out Lock-N-Stich in Turlock, CA. If they can’t fix it, nobody can. They have told me before that exhaust manifolds can be particularly sensitive subjects. Something to do with the carbon from the exhaust gasses changing the base metal over time.

Cost ya more to fix it than it would to buy a new one! We live in a throwaway world nowadays. Might as well embrace it.

[love2T's]

No one commented whether the manifold is possibly also warped - that adds another layer of difficulty for putting it back in service.

And you KNOW it is warped!!

[love2T's]

I would have to assume it is NOT, or would have to wonder why go to the expense & trouble to have it repaired.

Hear here!! See my other post above. Penny wise and pound foolish. Sorry.

[TXGOAT2]

It might be best to run it as-is. It might not leak. There is a significant chance that attempting to repair it will do more harm than good. I'd be inclined to run it as-is, and look for a replacement in the mean time.

[speedytinc]

Check out Lock-N-Stich in Turlock, CA. If they can’t fix it, nobody can. They have told me before that exhaust manifolds can be particularly sensitive subjects. Something to do with the carbon from the exhaust gasses changing the base metal over time.

Cost ya more to fix it than it would to buy a new one! We live in a throwaway world nowadays. Might as well embrace it.

You cant buy a new one.
This is one of those very rare early parts.
If you could find one, it would be huge dollars from a seller that knew its significance.
Hats off to the purist.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

No one commented whether the manifold is possibly also warped - that adds another layer of difficulty for putting it back in service.

And you KNOW it is warped!!

Not sure you/we KNOW it's warped, or why you think it's funny.

[Allan]

John is spot on, again. I have great respect for those who do their utmost to save/use original parts, especially if they are from early cars. I have yet to buy a reproduction exhaust manifold for any of my 20"s T's because they are cast differently at the rear when compared to originals.

Allan from down under.

[SurveyKing]

The manifold in question is not warped. Thanks, hoping to find a good repair man for this as they are hard to find.

[love2T's]

No one commented whether the manifold is possibly also warped - that adds another layer of difficulty for putting it back in service.

And you KNOW it is warped!!

Not sure you/we KNOW it's warped, or why you think it's funny.

My apologies on an erroneous approach Jerr...I didn't think IT was funny if IT (the original manifold) was warped but meant rather that its funny how SO ARE warped! Literally every stinking car I've bought had a warped manifold. So there, THAT'S what is funny to me. I am glad his isn't. We need to chill out.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Let us know what repair method you choose. I still like Terry Woods' suggestion.

[Mark Anderson]

Since 2022 Midwest Cylinder Head no longer welds cast iron. They are only a machine shop for rebuilding engines.

[Dan Hatch]

Does this take the straight pipe with no flange? If so I may know where one is. Dan

[Henry K. Lee]

I personally would not use either a lock stitch (as it is a wedge shape lock and differences in expansion rate of metals), the other is welding old thin cast iron. A better method is to use #6 or #8 X 32TPI brass machine screws very close over lap like a lock stitch and sand off smooth, You can paint with 2000 degree paint and no one will ever know.. The expansion of soft brass against cast iron is a perfect choice. I have done this many times to old engine valve seats with zero failures.

All Good!

[TXGOAT2]

If it will work on Ford V8 valve seats, it ought to work on anything!

[ShirkWood]

Search online for Cast Iron Welding MTFCA. It will bring up several posts from the past. Posted show a few different repairs using an oxy/acet torch, cast iron rod, and a special cast iron flux. There is one posting with a hole in a manifold that was filled up. It has been used in our car for several thousand miles now with no issues. I left it rough intentionally so I could monitor if there were any problems developing. Never have seen any. The local antique motorcycle club has a cast iron welding party on Jan. 1 every year for those of us that don't care to watch sports on TV on our day off. You can buy cast iron rod but personally, I like old cast iron Model T piston rings for the filler material. Once you learn how to weld this way, you'll wonder why you never did this before. No need to braze, stitch, arc weld, etc. You do need to pre-heat and post-heat with a cool down. Be the first kid on the block to weld cast iron with an oxy/acet torch. Find an old piece of broken cast iron and give it a try!

[nsbrassnut]

Another option to consider. If the part is rare and you don't want to experiment on it. Consider looking up a "high end" commercial specialty welding shop that is set up for laser welding. I had a cast iron crack in an early Cadillac rear axle spider repaired by laser welding. It can be done with everything at room temperature, no preheat or post heat. And no distortion of the part. In my case it didn't even damage the paint an inch away from the repair. The cost was higher than a regular welding shop, but probably comparable to a good cast iron welding job.

The shop that did my repair in 2018 was one of only about 6 in Canada that was doing that type of welding repair at the time. Their main work was repairing specialty items like forming press dies, aircraft engine parts and other small but interesting stuff. The welding was done under a magnifying glass on bench and the operator was good at it. https://www.advanced-welding.com/index.html

I expect that there are more companies in the field now than were in it then.

Here are a couple pictures of the repair. The weld is about 5/8" long.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Lots of comments above. My rod choice for cast repairs is Muggy Weld 77.

[Rich P. Bingham]

Jeff, the repair on that Caddy part seems nothing less than miraculous ! I had no idea such technology even existed. Thank you for posting that, and thanks again for this great forum for making such information available for our far-flung members !

[George Mills]

I've been 'watching' to see what the consensus is on repairing cast iron 'today'. The old rules of drilling a 1/8" hole at the end of the crack, followed with a valid preheat, followed by a 'soft' rod gas weld still hold for the homebody who knows how to use a rosebud on a torch. Not many do.

The goal of the OP is to have an original exhaust manifold on a 1909....quite a tough order.

The fact that there was a crack it shows that there were high residual stresses when the cast iron originally cooled and exhaust temps were not sufficient to allow the stress to walk out. That may, or may not have been localized that they worked their way completely out. Unfortunately, the way to assure is a bake at a higher temperature, but that is a bad choice as those full stress relief even in 117 year old iron 'may' take a flat today manifold and add a twist (or not).

I have done heads before that cracked along their backbone using what was 100 years ago called a 'rust joint' and will throw it out there for others to kick the tires. To me it was a cosmetic crack, there was no pressure involved, there was but moderate heat involved and some of those heads are now going on 40 years themselves without further cracking or weep.

My thought to share is could a rust joint work here while risking nothing? Drill a small hole at the head of the crack to keep it from migrating further. A quick parting line with a Dremel disc. Take iron filings or grinding dust and mix them with Sal-Ammonic (ammonium chloride..soap sized block you need to scrape to dust and collect), and use that paste (about 90% iron, 10% sal-ammonic, plus water) as the 'bondo' working it to near net size when applied, let it self-cure, then sand and or work the surface until it conforms to the final shape? No heat involved, no chance to open another crack or warp the manifold, it is for sure cosmetic in my view, and if using ring and gland gaskets (actually do not know type for an 09 but would guess would work fine if not Be original) there is nothing to worry about further?

Just a thought...please do kick the can down the road a bit ... were it to be me faced with this predicament and possible oxymoron, I'd definitely go the rust joint way? Totally old school...but would probably work fine?

[Lil Teezy]

Oooh oooh ooooh! Yup. Laser welding is becoming more common among jewelers and horologists, all the time, for tiny repairs. Perhaps a custom wedding ring shop or high end watch store near you will have a lead on a repair shop or craftsman with experience. A lot of laser welders are benchtop size and may not fit a manifold but my buddy is keen to get one on the shop floor.
Wish we could help locally, in some way other than theorizing, but I’m enjoying this discussion because along with all types of other artsy fartsy design and fab, we do things like re-flange cast steering boxes for hot rod frames and have a few rather serious concerns to handle while getting them right.
I’d still be inclined to slowly warm up the whole piece and then try to wick some soft rod in that crack with really local heat, after just a day in the ultrasonic and no grinding or drilling. Hopefully after some judicious sanding leaving just a barely visible line of filler. The sal-ammonic and filings would for sure work and be difficult to see. To me though, that split looks like the pressure from the finger bracket is spreading the material sideways along the machined face and “popping” the end of the piece. A re machined bolt stitch into that face and a spackle job on the spine might be the combo with the best chance of staying sealed but man what a fixturing job. I wonder too, really how much bolt pressure does the manifold bracket on a 1909 need with good rings and maybe a touch of the orange goop.
I love these “cat skinning” discussions, the best threads on the forum to me. (As long as they stay technical anyway) Hopefully someone local to the o.p. can make a successful repair that allows folks to see the original parts in place and running, that’s a righteous goal. In the meantime we get the luxury of dozens of hobbyists and pros weighing in on topics that are otherwise disappearing from the current industrial landscape. Good stuff. -Chris, in Boulder

[TXGOAT2]

Using the rust-up/sal amoniac method will definitely work on water jacket cracks. I don't know if it would be suited for an exhaust manifold, due to the extreme heat and frequent heat cycling. In a case like this,if you do get a good repair by whatever method, I'd want to be very careful to use the engine controls, spark advance and mixture control, to the best advantage to reduce heat stress on the manifold, avoiding late timing and very lean fuel mixtures.

[Mike Silbert]

If this were my problem (and I do not own an '09 so it is not mine for sure) I think I would go new school.
Although I really like the Laser welding idea, exhaust manifold repairs spook me.

It is not too tough of a part to have it Laser surface scanned to create a CAD file and cast an authentic reproduction part.
Add material to make the areas to machine.
Scale it to compensate for shrink.
Shell the outside of the model to create a core model.
3D print a core box to make the sand core.
3D print a manifold with the core pockets on it, body work it smooth and ready to be cast.
If you want to really go high tech then skip the printed patterns and core box and just have the sand molds 3D printed and cast directly.
Send it to the foundry and have some new ones cast.
Machine the threads and manifold ports.
Install your new authentic manifold and place the untouched original on the shelf.
Sell off a few copies to recoup some of your costs.

I am probably biased with my background in CAD/CAM and Laser scanning but these processes are becoming much more common these days.
This process is not for everyone and will not be fast but it will provide the hobby a part that has been out of stock for a long time.
Mike

[Kevin Pharis]

^^^^^^^^^^

While I generally agree with the new age perspective above, be prepared to have a $3k-$5k manifold when you are done, the lower end if you do the CAD and machine work yourself. Much of that will be 1st part engineering costs, but I suspect additional copies would still be in the $1k range. Good news is that you could have your first casting in about 30-60 days.

I have a friend that just added a laser welder to his heavy fab shop. He is welding 3/8” aluminum full penetration with an 1/8” wide weld bead. Absolutely amazing! Gonna ask him if they offer any information on iron welding…