1911 fender fit

[Art Ebeling]

I have what i believe are original fenders and running boards and repro aprons for my 11 Touring. One rear fender has a piece of painted over rubber attached with a screw on the front body side . There is also a hole at the very rear body side of the fender. What are they for? It looks like they are screw holes to attach to the under side of the wheel well. Also where does the end of the running board apron end up at the rear wheel well and at the front of the body firewall area? Can someone post pictures of the apron to rear and front fender gaps? Mine just does not look right Thanks. Art

[KWTownsend]

Art-
The hole in the fender is for a screw to attach it to the underside on the body.

These photos are of the 1911 of the late Chad Champlin.

: ^ )

[Art Ebeling]

Thank you, That fit about what mine looks like. Now if I could just figure out how to get the front fender's front bill from pointing up and out. Art

[KWTownsend]

You need to bend the fender irons.

[Art Ebeling]

I have heated and bent the front fender brackets up, down, forward and back, but I cant’t get the front fenders from pointing to the outside at the front. The front fenders bills are level, and the running board brackets are straight and level. Any suggestions? Thanks, Art

[Dollisdad]

Take the irons out. Clamp the skirt where it has to go on the frame.Take the bolts out of the running board, but support it from underneath. This allows you to move the fender around except where it needs to stay put. Now you can lift the fender up and twist the nose down on the outside. Then lift and push the fender in towards the center line of the car. You may have to put more radius into the fender edge to make the bend tighter. You should be able to get the fender to fit better and bring the nose more in line. The tail may need some work to line up with the running board. Do everything with clamps so you can move a little if need be. Don’t be afraid to bend things around if need be. Good luck.

[Art Ebeling]

This is what I am trying to correct. The outside edge is high and the front points outward. Thanks, Art

[Colin Mavins]

i would check the fender iron it self it could be the wrong one . it appears to be to long maybe a wide track iron ,do you have this problem on the other side. If not compare the two irons . I checked my 12 and it is straight and I only have about a quarter inch through the fender bracket . Thats why my thought is your fender iron is wrong. Cheers Colin

[Art Ebeling]

Thank you but even with the fender iron loose and hanging below the fender the fender looks the same. The right fender is not as bad but it also points out. Art

[Walter Higgins]

On the underside of the fender where the bracket is riveted on, is there a notecard-size piece of sheet metal sandwiched between the bracket and fender?

[Art Ebeling]

This is the underside.

[Walter Higgins]

What makes you think they're original fenders -- are there signs of old repairs, pitting, etc.? The brackets being bolted on doesn't assure that they are originals that have been unriveted and reinstalled because it is my understanding that years ago reproduction fenders didn't come with the brackets and they had to be sourced from an old set of fenders.

[Colin Mavins]

with the fender iron removed can put the fender in the proper position, if so the problem is with the iron, if you cant get the fender to sit correct with the front loose than the problem is with the fender. When I broke the crank I had the fender off when i put them back on they fell right into place . Your fender is repro I,m guessing because the under bracket is bolted on all the original fenders I have seen are rivited . You may find the something is wrong with the making of the fender, the front of the fender cant move to toward the rad unless the side skirt moves in toward the engine . I hope this makes sense If you unbolt everything except the fender to running board bolts the fender should sit in the correct place than see if the other holes line up if not you have a fender issue. Cheers Colin

[Colin Mavins]

In the second last pic you have the skirt bolted to the frame undo these bolts the fender will come back in line

[Colin Mavins]

If someone has there 11 close by take a measurement from the frame to the top of the fender I cant my 12 is at the farm

[Art Ebeling]

I was thinking they were original fenders because of visible old repairs. I appreciate the advice. Art

[Walter Higgins]

I have photos of the drawings for '11 Torpedo fenders (different, but the extreme dimensioning should be the same height-from-frame and distance-out-from-frame) but the photos are poor and I cannot read the numbers. Perhaps somebody else has this information to supply so you can work from some kind of reference point rather than having to aim for some unknown point in space.

[Jim Sims]

My guess would be that the fender is warped or twisted. Try pushing down on the front outer edge. That should move it down and in.

[pete eastwood]

For a good fender fit, you have to start with good running board alignment.
If the running board brackets are bent too low that will pull the running boards closer in , which pulls the tail of the front fender in & makes the bills point out .
"Fun Projects " has a good diagram of the correct running board bracket layout & dimensions .

[Dollisdad]

Pete’s statement is correct. When I built a car I started by making sure the frame was flat on top, square or diamond(one rail is not ahead of the other and the spacing was 20” between rails front to back. Then if it didn’t have r/b brackets, I riveted them in place. They would likely be crooked and bent. I would use John Regans diagram and make a jig out of 1” box tubing that layer across the frame rails and had a square frame that went down above the r/b location with two 5/16” pins out the bottom of the lower piece of tubing. The tube across the top had a stop guide welded to it to hit the inside of the frame rail, therefore locating the pins in the correct distance outward from the frame and downward the right distance. This jig clamped right above the r/b. The brackets usually were bent down and forward or back, so I would heat them and bend them close to fitting into the jig. The last little bit seemed to require a clamp to draw the r/b holes up onto the pins. Then I would heat the bracket near the frame and close to the truss rod area and let it air cool, before removing the jig. Then flip the jig to the other side and repeat. Then do the back ones and when your done you have four r/b brackets all in exactly the same location. Makes the fender fit issue MUCH easier. Get John’s diagram for r/b layout. On Arts car I would completely unbolt the fender. Also unbolt the truss rods between the r/b brackets. Let everything move around a little more freely. With the fender laying on its side on the floor, push down on the skirt making the over all width narrower. Then clamp the skirt to the frame as close to the firewall as possible. That’s the pivot point. If when the tail in located to the r/b and the nose still points to the outside the r/b is too far in. The fender can be relocated inward at the skirt a little, it can be reshaped to stand taller which will also move the fender line in. A good fender line is a lot of work. When your working on a car that usually has been beat to hell and is 100 yrs. old you are not in the Lexus zone anymore.

[Quickm007]

Hi Art, I Agree with Tom. I did on that way. I sent you couple pictures last week-end. Here other images, hope that will help. If you need more pictures or different angles let me know. Good luck.

[Allan]

Art, you mentioned that one fender fitted better than the other. If you get a large sheet of cardboard and take a tracing of the shape of the better fitting guard on the side profile, you can then compare this to the other side. This will reveal if the two fenders are the same shape. If they are, the problem lies in the brackets or the running board position. If they are not the same shape, then the poorer fitting one needs some manipulation.

I have used this trick often on the later curved fenders to see just where corrections need to be made to make a matched pair.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

[Art Ebeling]

You all have given me some great suggestions. I am going to try the laying the fender on its side and push the skirt in to reduce the width at the front. That is where the problem seems to be. These fenders were in storage for years and transported a few times so the could have gotten spread out. Thank you for all the ideas. Art