Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
JTT3
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 am
First Name: John T
Last Name: Tannehill III
Location: Hot Coffee, MS

Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by JTT3 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:04 pm

Forum just messing around today and found an almost complete model t 26/27 engine on a frame in the woods near our farm. I spoke with the owner and it followed me home. The only thing off the engine was the intake and manifold. I couldn’t find the front axle I guess it’s buried somewhere in the woods I’ll look later for it with my handy dandy metal detector. I used a flashlight to look inside the ports and could see that the valves stems were almost rusted through. So just for giggles what would be the best way to remove them? I remember back in my youth I tried removing some from a old T block and that didn’t turn out that well. On that engine I remove 2 with a punch and a BFH. With that success I continued and was able to break 2 guides in the process. I’d like to not repeat that, so let me hear your success stories. Thanks John


tdump
Posts: 442
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by tdump » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:10 pm

media blast inside the ports, then use gentle heat for a couple heat-cool down cycles,then apply penetrating oil,Kroil would be a good FIRST choice,then use a gentle tapping from a hammer on top and maybe with a punch in the ports,gently,you are shaking it for vibration to help the oil creep in and loosen them.
I have pulled valves this way that were less than a 1/8 th in size.I dropped 1 on the bench and it broke.

Penetrating oil is like many other things.contraversial.
BUT , remember,if you apply oil A to a problem,and the problem persist,you apply oil B and the problem persisit, and you apply oil C, then later the problem is solved,you have no idea which 1 actually worked. Truth be known, oil A probably took it's own sweet time getting in there and was a barrier to the other 2 oils getting in.
So on something important,I cut to the chase and use Kroil.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

User avatar

Topic author
JTT3
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 am
First Name: John T
Last Name: Tannehill III
Location: Hot Coffee, MS

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by JTT3 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:37 pm

Thanks Mack, anyone else?

User avatar

Susanne
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:06 pm
First Name: Susanne
Last Name: Rohner
Location: Northeastern California
MTFCA Number: 49765
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 1999
Contact:

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by Susanne » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:54 pm

Mdia blast, penetrating kroil, heat and repeat. Drive the stems out (if you can) from the bottom. Remove what you can, and then drill out the remainder of the stems and have them honed oversize and drop new guides in. You may have to also do the seats, if you can do your own machine work you will come out way way ahead.
Last edited by Susanne on Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar

david_dewey
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:42 pm
First Name: David
Last Name: Dewey
Location: Oroville, CA
MTFCI Number: 19936
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by david_dewey » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:12 pm

Kroil!! hands down, IMHO.
T'ake care,
David Dewey


Dave Young
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: David
Last Name: Young
Location: Mays Landing, Nj

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by Dave Young » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:18 pm

I use Kroil when I’m away from my shop, but for everyday use I depend on a homemade brew of ATF and Acetone mixed 50/50. I heat stuff with the torch until it’s red and then, during the cool-down, soak it good with the ATF mix shot from a regular oil can. Heat it back up after it cools and shoot it again when it’s just cool enough to not burn off. This is pretty much an every day deal, trying to get rusted crap apart on my cranes and tractor trailers. Kroil is good, but the other stuff works better at a bargain price. Vibration is definitely beneficial, such as from an air hammer.

User avatar

Topic author
JTT3
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 am
First Name: John T
Last Name: Tannehill III
Location: Hot Coffee, MS

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by JTT3 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:32 pm

Dave I like the ATF & acetone idea also. The air chisel sort of scares me. I do like Suzanne's comment about drill them out but I’m wondering if a bit will drill very effectively on the harder steel of a valve but it makes sense if I get to that point. Thanks all for the options including heat, hit, spray & repeat


John kuehn
Posts: 771
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by John kuehn » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:39 pm

Whether its rusted up blocks, pumps badly rusted up or this and that eventually using heat and some type of lube is what you’ll need to use. And patience! Can’t stress that enough.
Slowly tap or try to move the part with vise grips after it cools along with the lube. Heat again let cool and again use a lube. Move or tap. Eventually it will start to move.
Good luck. And be patient.


Allan
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by Allan » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:57 pm

When rescuing the B numbered block for my 1912 chocolate van, the camshaft came out cut in in pieces with an angle grinder. That still didn't let me get to the followers. So the valves had to come out, and heat and pounding were not doing the trick. I drilled the heads off the valves first, and sliced the valve springs down the stems to get them out of the way. Then the valve stems were ground off as far up as I could go, and the stems were pounded down from the top, and ground off again, so the operation could be repeated. Once the stems were all out, the followers could be driven out.

With pistons frozen in the block and crankshaft frozen on the rods and bearings, getting the rest out involved breaking up the cast iron pistons, taking off the main bearing caps and removing the flywheel bolts so the assembly could be lifted out.

I ended up with a slight crack in one bore, and a small piece broken out of the rear main bearing land, but with an otherwise sound bare block.
The main bearing brakeout was welded back, all 4 bores were sleeved back to standard, all stud holes were helicoiled, hardened valve seats were fitted and the valve guides were K lined anr the block was decked. That was around 1993 and it has done some 30 000 miles since then.

I can see no reason why anyone would go to that extent on a 26-7 block.

Allan from down under.


jiminbartow
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:55 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Patrick
Location: Bartow, FL
MTFCA Number: 50126

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by jiminbartow » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:11 pm

How about Blaster?


Scott C.
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:44 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Clements
Location: Waynetown Indiana
MTFCA Number: 49592

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by Scott C. » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:13 pm

Has anyone tried using vinegar to free up stuck parts?

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 658
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by TRDxB2 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:22 pm

OKAY - I'm going to give it a try, The review is excellent
https://backyardtoolshed.com/best-penetrating-oil/
Attachments
41i95QDAGuL._SL160_.jpg
41i95QDAGuL._SL160_.jpg (3.59 KiB) Viewed 878 times

User avatar

ivaldes1
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
First Name: Ignacio
Last Name: Valdes
Location: Houston, Tx
MTFCA Number: 50406
Board Member Since: 2016

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by ivaldes1 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:43 pm

Brother John, can you send a picture? -- IV


tdump
Posts: 442
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by tdump » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:03 am

Allan,if we are in a hurry,it is easy to toss a tough case to the side.But sometimes people like a challenge.And to me,saving a old engine is a challenge,making it run is even more fun.If I found a 26 engine,and it appeared to be all there and sound,it would sit in the shop on a stand and I would apply oil and peck at it for whatever time it took just to hear it hit a lick when I finished! :lol: It aint all about the money it's worth.if that was the case,I would have few toys!
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


Roz
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:53 pm
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: P
Location: TN
MTFCA Number: 31449
MTFCI Number: 24373
Board Member Since: 2012

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by Roz » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:32 am

I got these out using penetrating oil and tapping the butt end through the lifter holes. Patience is key. I have seen them so thin that they break off as soon as you start tapping. I have never had to drill one out.

thumbnail.jpg
thumbnail.jpg (16.87 KiB) Viewed 736 times

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 1695
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:13 pm

I started doing the same thing with a 26/27 block. Been soaking the bits and pieces with Kroil for a month before starting. Got the lifters to start moving down so I could work on pulling the non moving camshaft out. Someone had cut the valve stems leaving very ragged ends so needed to do some cleanup on them. I got down real close to work on them and noticed that the lip that seals the valve cover looked a bit odd. Wire brushed it then traced the crack up to one of the exhaust ports. Ah poop!
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup


jiminbartow
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:55 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Patrick
Location: Bartow, FL
MTFCA Number: 50126

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by jiminbartow » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:14 pm

I’m sure you are aware that you can have a machine shop drill out and press in new intake and exhaust valve seats as well as new intake and exhaust ports and can ream out the valve guides and install new larger stemmed valves. I had all that done on my block the last time I had It out to be rebuilt. It does make a difference. Jim Patrick

User avatar

Topic author
JTT3
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 am
First Name: John T
Last Name: Tannehill III
Location: Hot Coffee, MS

Re: Your Technique for removing rusted in & through valves

Post by JTT3 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:53 pm

Thanks all. I’ll begin working on it this week. Best John

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic