Plastic vs. Wood Coils

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TBill
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Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by TBill » Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:58 am

I have seen some discussion on this topic but no real conclusions.

Plastic seems to have some advantage over wood in that is won’t swell and should slide in and out of coil boxes easier.

Internals should be identical to wood ...

Please advise and comment.

THANKS


tdump
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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by tdump » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:10 am

I get a call sometimes to work on a 24 roadster and the last time I went over there the fellow had pulled 4 plastic colls and installed 4 that Ron Patterson had rebuilt.Runs better. It is my understanding the plastic coils are cheaper made and better suited for 1 cylinder hit and miss engine instead of a T .
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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:13 am

The benefit is that they won't swell.

And the benefits end there.
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Original Smith
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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by Original Smith » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:30 am

Some of the last wood KW coils weren't much better. They really cheapened them, and the condenser I understand wasn't much good either.

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RustyFords
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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by RustyFords » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:03 am

You'd think, after all these years, that there would be a modern coil package that would fit in the stock coil box that eliminates all the shortcomings of the wooden and plastic coils...something that would do what a coil is supposed to do but with modern, durable components and be invisible once the coil box lid was shut.

Sort of the ignition equivalent of the Fun Projects pinion bearing. I know you can install a distributor, etc but that's a dramatically visible alteration.

I mean heck...a coil is just a miniature transformer. We're not talking rocket science.

Maybe there has been and I'm just not aware of it. I've only been into T's for a few years and I'm the first to admit that I'm ignorant on the topic.
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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by Mark Gregush » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:00 pm

There has been, an example was the Tru-fire. (google it: Tru-Fire ford Model T)
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by RustyFords » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:19 pm

Mark Gregush wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:00 pm
There has been, an example was the Tru-fire. (google it: Tru-Fire ford Model T)
I've heard that name before....didn't know that that's what it was. It looks like you couldn't run a mag with that setup.
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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:35 pm

you can buy original wood coils, you can buy rebuilt original wood coils, you can buy new wood coils (both quality and crummy, you decide), you can buy every component in and on a wood coil. Unless termites remove their covering, they are pertetually repairable and adjustable. I see no shortcoming with that.

When a plastic coil quits, that's pretty much that.
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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by Kerry » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:27 pm

Scott.
A plastic set in one of my T,s had been rebuilt with new condensers although I didn't do them myself, they have been in the car with no faults for many years and clocked up many long tour miles.


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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by SurfCityGene » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:51 pm

Rusty, The answer to your question is an ETimer!

If you haven't heard of or researched Mike Kossor's ETimer then many of us here believe you'll be very pleasantly surprised. I think it is exactly what you are looking for? You can keep your old coil boxes so they sounds like operating coils but will have the improved performance of an ignition system that operates without any maintenance and at a level not achieved by other ignition systems over years of driving! It looks exactly like stock, can be quickly returned back to stock and offers unmatched performance of your T for years!

The installation of a disy on a stock looking Model T with the availability of the Etimer certainly is a terrible distraction visually.

Please check it out or start another thread asking for others opinions.
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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by J1MGOLDEN » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:13 pm

Gene, those E-timers need 4 good coils to operate.

All they do is act as a switch to turn on the coil.

That part is precision, but that is where the great production ends.


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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by Moxie26 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:20 pm

Jim as long as those coils have good secondary windings they condition of the condenser/capacitor is not important. I've been running an e-timer with no top hardware for the last 5 years and have had no problems with ignition...... Just to prove the point that the e-timer does not rely or need coil point settings of any type, just need coils with good primary and secondary windings.


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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by Moxie26 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:24 pm

Jim and all; I do rebuild the ignition coils and have found that the standoffs on the plastic oils will change position with temperature thus changing the electrical settings that were set and calibrating that coil...... Just like with air temperature affecting air pressure and tires, temperature with plastic oils will change the electrical settings.


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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by Moxie26 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:26 pm

I'll check voice texting results in the future, coils are not oils.....lol


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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by jiminbartow » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:45 pm

I prefer the old wooden coils with Ford Script rebuilt by The Coilman. I’ve never had a problem with them and they look better and more original when showing the car off. Jim Patrick


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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by TBill » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:53 pm

Looks like wood is the way to go.

Thanks all!!!


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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by J Sundstrom » Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:05 pm

Those plastic coils were manufactured by Blackstone Mfg in Chicago. It was a leftover product line that Echlin Corp
Continued to produce after they acquired the company in the
early 80’s. They were made until the late 90’s by them and
then liquidated or sold off when the plant was shut down
and Echlin was acquired by Dana Corp. I know this because I worked there then but was involved with mechanical and electrical fuel pumps. Quality can’t say but I know the housing
was not as stable as the original wood coil.


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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by jiminbartow » Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:27 pm

In the teens and 1920’s Ford Motor Company did a lot of experimentation with components made from soy beans. I’m not sure if it can be referred to as a plastic or it was referred to as soybean composites, but I once had a spark coil made from pressed soy bean composites. It was like a hard plastic, resembling Bakelite, with the Ford script pressed into the lined design of the box. I sold it on eBay and it was purchased by a well known MTFCA Member who has a large collection of Model T spark coils of every type. Jim Patrick


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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by Allan » Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:42 pm

Jim, it is the I timer which requires working coils, and these buzz as do the originals. The I timer came after the E timer, to cater for those who had to hear the sounds of buzzing coils. I love my E timer on my roadster. I have a True fire in my 1912 van and it performs flawlessly. My shooting brake has a set of Ron Paterson rebuilt coils and an Anderson timer. Henrietta has coils I rebuilt and an Anderson timer. My 27 Tudor has a distributor, which will get the A... when it gives me any trouble. Like anything, your mileage will vary according to the attention you give it.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by Rollinford » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:47 pm

I have been experimenting with Model T ignition systems, and am currently trialling coil boxes of my own making.
I have used Australian Silky Oak for the timber boxes.
I have used modern components except for the capacitor on the internals. The ignition coil is from an Australian Ford Falcon BA series. The letters and numbers for it are VDO A2C59513771 3618M.
The coil capacitor letters and numbers are SH-CAP 10uF 400V 50/60Hz
The points capacitor is one supplied by Snyders.
The magnetic post is one I have wound myself.
So far I have probably driven approx. 150 miles. I am doing a longer run with the vehicle at the end of the month and so that should give me a fairer indication of its reliability. So far they have been trouble free, on both battery and magneto ignition.
The timer shown in the picture is one I made a few years ago, as a copy of an original Teisch timer.
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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by Luke » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:28 pm

Good to see that innovation, Dick.

It'll be interesting to hear how your trials go with a few more miles on them, hope you have continued success.

FWIW I have a plastic coil here that I was given recently. I'm think I'm going to use it when I research and design my own electronic timer; it's trivial to produce the necessary output to induce the coils without need for points etc - which to my mind is probably best suited to the plastic coils, given their propensity to change characteristics over time.

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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by JWalters » Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:26 am

Rollinford wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:47 pm
The timer shown in the picture is one I made a few years ago, as a copy of an original Teisch timer.
Dick, Thats an interesting timer. Could you tell us a little more about your setup and how this timer works?








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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by Rollinford » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:48 am

Hello Jason
Thanks for your interest. I do not know how to post a link to the original 2015 posting about the timer, but if you enter the following into your search engine it will come up.
Tisch timer mtfca
Regards Dick

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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by JWalters » Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:11 am

Thanks Dick, That looks like a good design for a timer. Great work on making your own!


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Re: Plastic vs. Wood Coils

Post by Allan » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:42 am

Dick, Silky oak was also used by Lorimer when making replacement coils for T's. They do look pretty, But I have never had a matched set of 4 to compare their performance against originals.
I have never gotten over seeing silky oak being sawn into 4 x 1.5" ceiling timbers at a mill north of Townsville when I was in the army in 1970. What a waste! We'd been sent to the mill for offcuts to fuel a field cooker on an exercise near Ingham.

Allan from down under.

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