Mystery Tools

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
Mark Chaffin
Posts: 1377
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:11 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Chaffin
Location: Corona
MTFCA Number: 31705
Board Member Since: 2001

Mystery Tools

Post by Mark Chaffin » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:37 pm

I have two tools I have been unable to identify. I believe they are "Z" tools; however, no visible marks to indicate that is the case. Any help would be appreciated.
Tool 3.jpg
Tool 4.jpg
First tool
Tool.jpg
Tool 2.jpg
Second tool


Allan
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by Allan » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:42 pm

Mark the second tool is likely used to make adjustments to LHD first gear. It fits the external adjuster by the looks.

Allan from down under.

User avatar

Pep C Strebeck
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:12 am
First Name: Joseph
Last Name: M
Location: MI
MTFCA Number: 0

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by Pep C Strebeck » Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:08 am

I don't know the number, but the first tool is the "bar" for removing and installing the brake shoe spring on large drum rear axle. It is shown in the Service Manual in paragraph 1224.
"Remember son, there are two ways to do this: The right way, and your way” Thanks Dad, I love you too.

LOOKING FOR A LUFKIN Model 197 Pin Vise Set.

User avatar

dobro1956
Posts: 677
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:13 pm
First Name: Donnie
Last Name: Brown
Location: Hills of Arkansas

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by dobro1956 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:07 am

Mark. I'm interested in both tools if you decide to sell them. Not sure about the second tool but the first is a brake shoe spring remover/installer as mentioned above.

My e-mail is dobro (at) artelco.com
Last edited by dobro1956 on Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.


Scott_Conger
Posts: 2753
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:56 am

The socket wrench is for early engines with main bearing bolt heads with simply 2 flats (not square)
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


Allan
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by Allan » Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:37 am

Scott, that's what I love about this forum. One can learn something new every day. I did not know about those early main bearing bolts. Have you any idea what the measurement is across the flats? The square headed ones are 9/16".

Allan from down under.

User avatar

Topic author
Mark Chaffin
Posts: 1377
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:11 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Chaffin
Location: Corona
MTFCA Number: 31705
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by Mark Chaffin » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:13 am

Thank you for all the help guys! Much appreciated. The tools are available if interested. I have one wrench and two of the brake tools.


Scott_Conger
Posts: 2753
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:18 am

Allan

I will check today when I go out to the shop
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!

User avatar

RajoRacer
Posts: 1845
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Tomaso
Location: Longbranch, WA
MTFCA Number: 14972
MTFCI Number: 15411
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by RajoRacer » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:19 am

I'd take one of the brake spring tools off your hands, Mark.


tmagill
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:48 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Magill
Location: Bedford In
MTFCA Number: 4444

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by tmagill » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:31 am

Mark I would take a brake spring tool if still available. thanks Tim


Jim, Sr.
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:13 pm
First Name: Jim, Sr.
Last Name: Rodell
Location: Wisconsin
MTFCA Number: 2406
MTFCI Number: 22213

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by Jim, Sr. » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:56 pm

Your early main bearing wrench is 3Z-619. Not all of them are marked.
1922 Coupe , 1926 Touring


Allan
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by Allan » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:34 am

Jim raises a interesting point. Just when were Z numbers applied to identify the various tools? Originally the large cam gear locknut wrench was designated as part no 2333. The other tools on the same page in my 1915 parts books are all just numbered. There are no Z tools listed.
There is a wrench numbered 2321, but that is for the crankshaft bearing bolt NUT. The Z number as Jim posts is likely a later adoption, but of what original plain number?

Allan from down under.

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 1649
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Contact:

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by DanTreace » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:46 pm

Allan

Just info from Bruce's C-D encylo. under factory tools he gives rather complete listing of dates too and numbers assigned.

Believe the 3-z numbering began in 1917 or so, with many of the supplied car tools left with normal part numbers, around late '20's maybe '23-'24 all changed to 5-z numbering, except the tools supplied with the cars and trucks. There were many, many 3z and 5z, for almost every thing on the assembly line, even tools to gage one man top iron parts prior to fitting top covering, lots of specialized tools at the factory assembly branches!

That early wrench for 2 flat face main bolt heads is either 2069 in '12-'15 and then became 2341...
and the sq. head style is 2341-B....later in Feb 1917 the 2341-B became 3z-619.

All the nice reason to have on your PC Bruce's up to date encyclopedia :D

Screenshot 2020-02-13 12.33.13 copy.jpg
Screenshot 2020-02-13 12.33.13 copy.jpg (13.81 KiB) Viewed 1868 times

And BTW, that bar for large brake drum shoe spring is 5z-1157 Pry Bar (rear brake spring)
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Allan
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by Allan » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:40 pm

Thanks for the reference source Dan. I can do with more reading!

Allan from down under.


Jim, Sr.
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:13 pm
First Name: Jim, Sr.
Last Name: Rodell
Location: Wisconsin
MTFCA Number: 2406
MTFCI Number: 22213

Re: Mystery Tools

Post by Jim, Sr. » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:15 am

All of the information about the Ford tools is also in the back pages of "Bruce's Big Black Book".
The main bearing wrench for the square headed bolts started as 2341-B in Oct 1914, was changed to 3Z-782 in Feb 1917, and later changed to 5Z-156.
The early main bearing wrench for the bolts with two flat sides started as 2341, and was changed to 3Z-619 in Feb 1917. It was still available until June 1922, but apparently became obsolete. There is no record of it changing to a 5Z number.
1922 Coupe , 1926 Touring

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic