Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
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Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
In the process of doing this and have come to the point where I can add the roadster’s metal floor to the frame. Since this was the original “trunk” floor and there’ll be no trunk, do I need to add the floor back with the pickup bed going over it anyway? It would seem the original metal floor would add some additional rigidity to the overall body subframe. Along this same line, did the back of the cab have a ledge or flange to attach the trunk floor to the back of the cab? Seems like with the battery cutout, one would need a way to fasten the two portions on either side of the cutout to prevent them from flopping around.....other than just rivets or screws into the cab back panel....
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
Rob
You don't have to add the sheet metal floor unless you want too, since you are putting on the pickup bed.
The runabout body does have a metal 'return' below the tub for the metal panel to fit, it has a lip to hold that floor. The metal floor does have rim for the battery door, but you can make something do with the wood floor only to hold the door in place, a hump plate will fit your your wood bed anyway as that bed has to clear the rear crossmember.
Depending on the year of your bed, the later used a 'filler' plate on both sides to cover the gap between the runabout tub and the front panel of the bed. Early beds just had exposed area there.
When doing a '26 pickup, removed the rusted floor panel and placed the completed bed with wood floor onto the runabout subframe, works good that way too.
You don't have to add the sheet metal floor unless you want too, since you are putting on the pickup bed.
The runabout body does have a metal 'return' below the tub for the metal panel to fit, it has a lip to hold that floor. The metal floor does have rim for the battery door, but you can make something do with the wood floor only to hold the door in place, a hump plate will fit your your wood bed anyway as that bed has to clear the rear crossmember.
Depending on the year of your bed, the later used a 'filler' plate on both sides to cover the gap between the runabout tub and the front panel of the bed. Early beds just had exposed area there.
When doing a '26 pickup, removed the rusted floor panel and placed the completed bed with wood floor onto the runabout subframe, works good that way too.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
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Topic author - Posts: 134
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
Thanks! So do you think there’s any advantage to putting the metal “floor” back in for structural reasons?
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
I don't think the roadster pickup in 1926 had a metal floor. Just stop and figure it out! Why would you put bed wood over a metal bottom?. Pretty dumb idea I'd say! What I would like to see you do is check with the owner of a '26 pickup that has a totally an original bed and has never had the wood changed to find out the original thickness. There is another post of this subject now somewhere. I wish I knew more about 1926 pickups, but I don't. I do know for a fact, the 1925 pickup wood was 13/16", not 3/4 as many believe. Let us all know what you find out.
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
Seems like adding the floor would collect dirt and water leading to rust.
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
That’s a great point....maybe Scott C will take a look at his new PU and see if there’s any evidence of trunk floor on it. Looking at his bed picts, looks like he doesn’t have a diff hump on his....
I wonder if there’s more “converted” RPU’s out there with beds over metal floors? Seems like it might have been easier to slap a bed on a previous roadster and not take the time to drill out the riveted in trunk floor. And I imagine Ford sent a few factory RPU’s out with cabs that still had trunk attachment holes in the cab, just to save a buck or two...
I wonder if there’s more “converted” RPU’s out there with beds over metal floors? Seems like it might have been easier to slap a bed on a previous roadster and not take the time to drill out the riveted in trunk floor. And I imagine Ford sent a few factory RPU’s out with cabs that still had trunk attachment holes in the cab, just to save a buck or two...
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
At first glance, I did not see a metal floor. I will take a closer look and see if I can tell if there ever was one.
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
Unless someone can confirm factory assembled pickup didn't have a metal deck (rear floor ), then IMO, all runabout bodies came with a metal deck.
A '26 pickup that I restored had the metal deck. The metal deck sealed road grime, and it also has the battery door flange, and bump up for the rear crossmember.
The pickup bed with its wood floor slats sits above the metal deck, as its mounted on side members that bolt to the subframe. Makes it very easy to remove a turtle deck (they have no floor and rely on the metal deck) and mount a pickup bed with its wood floor for hauling stuff, easy to slide things over a wood floor out of the bed.
Now perhaps later '27 factory assembled might not have the metal deck, but seems odd. Although that may be the reason the later pickup beds have a forward 'filler' plate to cover the gap between the tub and the front of the bed, that would hide bare frame rails if no metal deck. Don't know, have only experience with pickup bed over the metal deck on a '26.
Note the metal deck under with flange to keep battery door in place, same as runabout only it has a wood door, the pickup bed uses a metal door, with unique molding to mimic the metal bed strips for cosmetic effect.
Metal deck on runabout body, interchangeable turtle or bed easy. Riveted to the bed 'filler' plate on this later bed, blocks the gap at the body tub.
A '26 pickup that I restored had the metal deck. The metal deck sealed road grime, and it also has the battery door flange, and bump up for the rear crossmember.
The pickup bed with its wood floor slats sits above the metal deck, as its mounted on side members that bolt to the subframe. Makes it very easy to remove a turtle deck (they have no floor and rely on the metal deck) and mount a pickup bed with its wood floor for hauling stuff, easy to slide things over a wood floor out of the bed.
Now perhaps later '27 factory assembled might not have the metal deck, but seems odd. Although that may be the reason the later pickup beds have a forward 'filler' plate to cover the gap between the tub and the front of the bed, that would hide bare frame rails if no metal deck. Don't know, have only experience with pickup bed over the metal deck on a '26.
Note the metal deck under with flange to keep battery door in place, same as runabout only it has a wood door, the pickup bed uses a metal door, with unique molding to mimic the metal bed strips for cosmetic effect.
Metal deck on runabout body, interchangeable turtle or bed easy. Riveted to the bed 'filler' plate on this later bed, blocks the gap at the body tub.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
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Topic author - Posts: 134
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
Cool! That picture of the metal stamped battery door is great! Good point about the metal deck stopping a lot of road gunk from hitting the underside of a “vulnerable” wood bed...
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
I do not see any sign that there was a metal floor on the 27. But, with the bed installed, it is hard to see for sure. So, I was thinking. Why would some one spend the time and effort to totally remove the metal floor and all the rivets, if it was not necessary? Back in the day, they were probably not worried about anything other than functionality and they did not have all of the handy power tools that we have today. I do think how ever, that Henry would have omitted it during assembly just save a buck, as it was not a necessary part for a pickup. The early ones probably did have the deck because they were in the design phase and probably using roadsters right off of the line. As far as it protecting the wood bed floor, that makes no sense to me because the bed extends beyond the deck leaving the rear portion of the wood exposed.
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
There is some great knowledge and advice provided so far and the origional photo is a great resource.
I will add a thought from a different perspective as a retired engineer. Some things are intended to be taken apart and some things are not. Something that is bolted together is a "seperable assembly" and is intended to be taken apart or upgraded, or replaced. If it is welded or riveted it is a "inseperable assembly" and is not intended to be taken off or taken apart. Using this engineerinng logic, if the floor is riveted in place it is intended to stay that way with either the turtle back or pickup bed.
Another way to think this through would be to consider what was done for the pickup bed on the previous model. The 1925 roadster pickup had the pickup bed installed over the turtleback floor.
Having said this, I would still favor any origional examples, photo evidence, drawings, and origional documentation over engineer logic or reasonable man on the street best guess.
I will add a thought from a different perspective as a retired engineer. Some things are intended to be taken apart and some things are not. Something that is bolted together is a "seperable assembly" and is intended to be taken apart or upgraded, or replaced. If it is welded or riveted it is a "inseperable assembly" and is not intended to be taken off or taken apart. Using this engineerinng logic, if the floor is riveted in place it is intended to stay that way with either the turtle back or pickup bed.
Another way to think this through would be to consider what was done for the pickup bed on the previous model. The 1925 roadster pickup had the pickup bed installed over the turtleback floor.
Having said this, I would still favor any origional examples, photo evidence, drawings, and origional documentation over engineer logic or reasonable man on the street best guess.
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
Can you imagine drilling each hole for the bed strips through the metal floor? Something to think about.
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
Larry
The '26-'27 pickup steel bed is a standalone assembly. The wood floor boards are fastened to the metal sides of the bed, and along the rear, and at the front of the metal bed. The metal strips only provide center support for the wood floor.
The carriage bolts are short and only go between each wood board, no holes to drill, and into a special 'toothed' square washer that locks into the saw kerfs on the board underside, and fastened with a square nut.
The assembly fits over the metal deck of the runabout, and it is above the deck for clearance. The side frame rails of the bed are what hold it up over the metal deck. No fasteners go into the metal deck to hold the pickup bed.
Reproduction board and reproduction special washer, note the repro washers are a bit too narrow to fit well into the kerf, or else the reproduction boards are made with the saw kerf too wide apart, although the metal strips fit well into the upper kerfs. The tooth ends of the square washer should bite into the saw blade kerf, to keep the washer and board from separating or moving apart under loads, the metal bed strips fit the same way on the upper surface of each board, into matching saw kerfs. Those metal strips cover the gap between each bed board.
Wood bed set for the '26-'27 pickup metal bed.
The '26-'27 pickup steel bed is a standalone assembly. The wood floor boards are fastened to the metal sides of the bed, and along the rear, and at the front of the metal bed. The metal strips only provide center support for the wood floor.
The carriage bolts are short and only go between each wood board, no holes to drill, and into a special 'toothed' square washer that locks into the saw kerfs on the board underside, and fastened with a square nut.
The assembly fits over the metal deck of the runabout, and it is above the deck for clearance. The side frame rails of the bed are what hold it up over the metal deck. No fasteners go into the metal deck to hold the pickup bed.
Reproduction board and reproduction special washer, note the repro washers are a bit too narrow to fit well into the kerf, or else the reproduction boards are made with the saw kerf too wide apart, although the metal strips fit well into the upper kerfs. The tooth ends of the square washer should bite into the saw blade kerf, to keep the washer and board from separating or moving apart under loads, the metal bed strips fit the same way on the upper surface of each board, into matching saw kerfs. Those metal strips cover the gap between each bed board.
Wood bed set for the '26-'27 pickup metal bed.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
This is really invaluable info for me! While I’m still a few days away from putting the body subframe on the frame, some of this will no doubt become clearer when I’m looking at the same pictures you’re posting and the information I’m picking up. Figured I’d get all the stuff riveted to the frame like running board brackets, brake quadrants and a body bracket or two before the body subframe goes on and is in the way.
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
That photo Dan posted above looks like a '25 to me. The notch in the front of the front panel for a '26 goes in much further.
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
I am in similar boat. My 1926 roadster came with a wooden bed, which I am replacing with a stock metal one.
However if I place the bed onto the rear, the width of the bed is 2” - 3” more narrow than the rear side panels where the turtle deck would normally sit. I don’t have the metal panel either.
This photo illustrates the gap.
So would I need the metal panel shown here?
And I see nothing the pickup bed would attach to on the body frame. So wondering about the discussion related to the 2 crossmembers shown here:
Help!
Jennifer
However if I place the bed onto the rear, the width of the bed is 2” - 3” more narrow than the rear side panels where the turtle deck would normally sit. I don’t have the metal panel either.
This photo illustrates the gap.
So would I need the metal panel shown here?
And I see nothing the pickup bed would attach to on the body frame. So wondering about the discussion related to the 2 crossmembers shown here:
Help!
Jennifer
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
Jennifer could you post the outside measurements of your box where the outer flanges are? I will go and measure mine for reference.
Update:
Mine is 43" from the widest point where the main box bolts go down into the rear spring mount horns. Your box may be from a 1928/29 Model A. They look the same until the tape measure comes out. My fits perfect on the rear sub frame rails.
Hope this Helps,
Hank
Update:
Mine is 43" from the widest point where the main box bolts go down into the rear spring mount horns. Your box may be from a 1928/29 Model A. They look the same until the tape measure comes out. My fits perfect on the rear sub frame rails.
Hope this Helps,
Hank
Last edited by Henry K. Lee on Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
On the bed itself? I notice the bed comes down straight as well, there is no “L” angle present…
From the bottom of the bed, side to side 39.5” wide.
Jennifer
From the bottom of the bed, side to side 39.5” wide.
Jennifer
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
Ugh. But it has the half moon sides, and the front cut out for the battery box…
Literally the offset matches this file I found while searching the forums
Does your sides come straight down or is there an “L” flange on the bottom surface where it sits on the body ?
(And thank you for your help!)
Jennifer
Literally the offset matches this file I found while searching the forums
Does your sides come straight down or is there an “L” flange on the bottom surface where it sits on the body ?
(And thank you for your help!)
Jennifer
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
Looking close at that photo you posted from the web, that bed is correct later T bed on T runabout, but not aligned correctly. The flare rails should extend pass the body tub equally, obviously one side is off center.Literally the offset matches this file I found while searching the forums
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
I have a 26 Roadster which, before I owned it was converted to a rumble seat. The metal floor must have deteriorated, because it was replaced by wood. Whoever did the work did a very good job of fitting the wood and even made a cover for the battery box out of wood. I have had the car for at least 30 years without any structural problems. The lower part below the turtle deck has it's own support system as shown in the picture above.
I think you would be fine using a wood bottom in your pick up bed. Since there were two similar bodies, one for the Roadster and the other for the Pickup. The only major difference is the part right in back of the seat does not have the indentations shown in the one above.
Since the installation of the pickup bed on your body is non stock, I don't think it would be a problem to install the wood. That car is not going to be judged in a contest where there is a prize for the most original car.
Norm
I think you would be fine using a wood bottom in your pick up bed. Since there were two similar bodies, one for the Roadster and the other for the Pickup. The only major difference is the part right in back of the seat does not have the indentations shown in the one above.
Since the installation of the pickup bed on your body is non stock, I don't think it would be a problem to install the wood. That car is not going to be judged in a contest where there is a prize for the most original car.
Norm
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
Appears from your description you may have the Model A bed. Can't fit to the T runabout subframeUgh. But it has the half moon sides, and the front cut out for the battery box…
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
So based on everything I’m seeing, I’m fairly convinced this was a model T bed that some one cut off the bottoms of the “L” panels along the bottom of the bed which is how it would be mounted normally.
It has the correct half moon embossing on the side panels, and the front panel has an obvious modification to remove the battery notch and make it flat which I’m told folks used to do when converting them to trailers.
The length of the bed is 57” and it’s 47” wide side to side measuring the outer edges of the top “lips”, the inner width is 40.5”.
I’ve access to a verified good bed in 2 weeks, so will make this one available “as is” on the forums then.
I am curious though, do these measurements match what you see on you pickup beds?
Jennifer
It has the correct half moon embossing on the side panels, and the front panel has an obvious modification to remove the battery notch and make it flat which I’m told folks used to do when converting them to trailers.
The length of the bed is 57” and it’s 47” wide side to side measuring the outer edges of the top “lips”, the inner width is 40.5”.
I’ve access to a verified good bed in 2 weeks, so will make this one available “as is” on the forums then.
I am curious though, do these measurements match what you see on you pickup beds?
Jennifer
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
Mystery solved??
I finally figured out what the issue is (I think/hope/pray). Sometime in the distant past someone took this and flattened out the battery notch and flattened out the long “L” bracket along the bottom of each side where it bolts to the body!!
Notice how tall the lower panels are:
And it appears that if I were to re-bend the bottom back into an “L” shape the holes align with the frame! So the "L" is now an "I"!!!
How in the world did they bend this 4’ long piece of pretty heavy metal I wonder?
Thanks everyone!!!
I finally figured out what the issue is (I think/hope/pray). Sometime in the distant past someone took this and flattened out the battery notch and flattened out the long “L” bracket along the bottom of each side where it bolts to the body!!
Notice how tall the lower panels are:
And it appears that if I were to re-bend the bottom back into an “L” shape the holes align with the frame! So the "L" is now an "I"!!!
How in the world did they bend this 4’ long piece of pretty heavy metal I wonder?
Thanks everyone!!!
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
When men were men? LOL!
Hank
Hank
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Re: Converting a 26 roadster to a roadster pickup
Looking back at this thread and wondered the size/type bolt that goes through the body frame, through the wood blocks, and through the spring perch horns?