Crankshaft Seals

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
TBill
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:31 pm
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Obier
Location: Rosedale, LA
MTFCA Number: 28973

Crankshaft Seals

Post by TBill » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:42 am

What is the preference for crankshaft front seals?

Lang’s lists three options: original felt, rope, and neoprene.

User avatar

ABoer
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:41 pm
First Name: Anthonie
Last Name: Boer
Location: Klaaswaal NL
MTFCA Number: 19790

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by ABoer » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:27 am

Bill , I use the rope style from Lang's # 3012 R
and I glue a seal on the outside like in the picture
IMGP2545.JPG
IMGP2542.JPG
IMGP2541.JPG
IMGP1393.JPG
Toon


Joe Bell
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:20 pm
First Name: Joe
Last Name: Bell
Location: Tiffin Ohio
MTFCI Number: 24066

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by Joe Bell » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:53 am

I have tore many engines down, the rope seal does a wonderful job but have seen cranks with grooves in them from them, I do not know if it is soft cranks dirt and grime that has cause this. I prefer the modern neoprene that you RTV in place or the original felt if the crank has wear to it. Just my thoughts. Hope this helps.


Original Smith
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by Original Smith » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:46 am

It's good to hear the rope style is back on the market. Since they are probably not using asbestos any more, has anyone heard how they are holding up?
There are two different widths used on T's.


Allan
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by Allan » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:31 pm

I believe the white rope seal with the little black core is stocked as an A model part. As such it is too long for a T. This is good because it allows each piece to be trimmed leaving the ends a little long to provide extra crush. They will not work on the earlier Ts with the narrow seal groove.

When installing each piece, I oil them first, and use an appropriate sized socket wrench to seat them in the grooves.

Allan from down under.

User avatar

JohnH
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:57 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Hunter
Location: Blue Mountains, Australia
Board Member Since: 2002
Contact:

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by JohnH » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:27 pm

I've used felt in two engines without any problems.


Les Schubert
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
First Name: Les
Last Name: Schubert
Location: Calgary

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by Les Schubert » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:48 pm

Another option to consider is to install a “SpeediSleeve” where the packing runs.
I’ve built up the worn area with “plastic metal”
and turned it down to size. Then drive on the Speedi sleeve (Timken # 99118). Now you have a surface that is BETTER than new and totally invisible outside!


Norman Kling
Posts: 572
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
First Name: Norman
Last Name: Kling
Location: Alpine California

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by Norman Kling » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:19 pm

The neoprene seal which fits in the groove works, however, you cannot get the timing cover off without pulling the engine.
Norm


tdump
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by tdump » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:42 pm

Thanks for posting this.I am at a point that this is important info.I was looking at the seals and thought of geting the neopreme.But Thanks Norm for reminding me that I would have to take the engine loose to get it out.
There are some pits in the crankshaft on mine ,tiny but there.I was thinking of using Liquid steel or similar to give a smooth surface for whatever seal to ride on .I don't know if I can still get that brand.I used it on a new hydrolic cylinder that got gouged and it worked great to fill a groove.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


Scott_Conger
Posts: 2206
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:17 pm

Mack

if it is pitted and want a permanent, functional repair, you want this: https://www.modeltford.com/item/3012SL.aspx
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


AZTerry
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:18 pm
First Name: Terry
Last Name: Loftus
Location: Phoenix, AZ
MTFCA Number: 7379
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by AZTerry » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:42 pm

Hello Bill,

Speedi-Sleeve is the way to go, and that is what Scott's link to Lang's appears to be. I have used them for this and several other applications and there is no substitute. I do not have one handy otherwise I would give you the part number. Measure the size of the crank seal surface and look up Speedi-Sleeve and determine what part number you need. Then search for that part number on the internet, nothing against Lang's but you may be able to find it for half of what Lang's (or any parts house) is asking (I usually do).

If the surface is badly worn, I build the surface up with JB Weld then use a file to dress it down to correct size before installing the sleeve using unworn adjacent surfaces as a guide.

Terry


Les Schubert
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
First Name: Les
Last Name: Schubert
Location: Calgary

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by Les Schubert » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:06 am

95E3D69F-4954-486D-8904-3E0BA11AA2C0.jpeg
5DC966BC-4444-4D14-96CB-B1A5E3C7097C.jpeg
BCC5899D-3AF5-4F4A-9DAF-BDB4979581E6.jpeg


schwabd1
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:26 pm
First Name: David
Last Name: Schwab
Location: Northwest Ohio

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by schwabd1 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:04 pm

So, to use the speedi sleeve does the crank need to be turned down so the OD of the shaft is correct once applied?


modeltbarn
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:59 pm
First Name: Gary
Last Name: London
Location: Camarillo

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by modeltbarn » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:38 pm

Sleeve if the crank is worn. I used a little loctite to hold it in place. Sorry, I don't recall the specific loctite I used... it wasn't thread lock, it was for holding items that were supposed to be a press tight fit but weren't. Take a look at their website, you'll find a few options, many are available on Amazon. Once the sleeve is in place you run it as-is, you don't turn it down.

Rope seals are great... like Norm said, you can't get the front cover off without damaging the modern seal; then you've got to split the block from the pan.


Dennis Prince
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:36 pm
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: Prince
Location: Madras Oregon
MTFCA Number: 22802
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by Dennis Prince » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:33 pm

You don't have to pull the pan with a neoprene seal to get the timing cover off unless you are going to replace the seal. I have had a number of timing covers off and just clean out the old sealer and put new in the groove when putting it back together.


tdump
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by tdump » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:06 pm

Thanks Les for that part number,
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/na ... 18/2552594
I can stop in and get the store to order me 1.I like talking to the gal in there anyhow.

For this price,I would rather go ahead and use the speedy sleeve.I used 1 of a different size on the right rear axle of my 66F100 that would just not stop dripping rear end oil on the brakes.Fixed the problem!
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


schwabd1
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:26 pm
First Name: David
Last Name: Schwab
Location: Northwest Ohio

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by schwabd1 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:27 pm

Just ordered a 99118 speedi-sleeve from Rockauto with tax and shipped to my door for $22,69 (with discount code 129534791118895320). Thanks for the info!


Allan
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by Allan » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:45 am

The Loktite product used for building up worn tolerances between parts is called ' quickmetal '. I have used it extensively on agricultural machinery when fitting bearing/gears/ hubs etc on worn shafts. The components go together while the product is fluid, and it cures in place. Removal requires just enough heat without burning paint off!

Allan from down under.

User avatar

Quickm007
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:58 am
First Name: Mario
Last Name: Brossard
Location: Canada
MTFCA Number: 30981
MTFCI Number: 30981
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by Quickm007 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:42 am

Like Allan, I used the white rope seal with the little black core is stocked as an A model part. Just cut the lenght you want with a knife and always fit perfectly. Cheap and efficent option. :lol:
Super Mario Bross ;)

1911 Touring
1914 race car project


SurfCityGene
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:00 pm
First Name: Gene
Last Name: Carrothers
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
MTFCA Number: 22905
MTFCI Number: 23068
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by SurfCityGene » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:34 pm

Use a 30 X 50 X 05 AO - VBR modern seal on the outside glued on with Ultra Black for a leakfree crankshaft. If your engine is in the car you can not replace the stock seal. this seal is very thin and will fit between most crank pulleys and the block with no interference!

You may also install it like the pictures Toon posted. I like to cut all the web and flatten it like a daisy flower to allow a fit between the alum pulley.

This is a must do anytime you have the radiator off or the pulley off if you have any evidence of an oil leak.
1912 Torpedo Roadster


Topic author
TBill
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:31 pm
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Obier
Location: Rosedale, LA
MTFCA Number: 28973

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by TBill » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:30 am

THANKS ALL!!!


tdump
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by tdump » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:53 am

https://www.metricsealsinc.com/30x50x5- ... 0-x-5-baof
Gene ,is the seal you speak of like this? I had a bit of trouble translating the numbers using google.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


SurfCityGene
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:00 pm
First Name: Gene
Last Name: Carrothers
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
MTFCA Number: 22905
MTFCI Number: 23068
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by SurfCityGene » Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:17 am

Mack, Yes The seal with a spring is designed for low pressure. You can look at Harwal Rotary Shaft Oil Seals. after the size the "ADL" designation is with a seal and a dust lip. It is a VBR which means Viton Black Rubber. On their site you can search the different sizes and the 30 50 05 works on most T's because it is one of the thinnest at 05 thick. hope this helps
1912 Torpedo Roadster


tdump
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by tdump » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:33 pm

The seal got here today Gene,thanks! I will get payment in the mail this week.Tuesday probably.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


tdump
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by tdump » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:14 pm

Gene,I forgot the post office stop this morning,I promise to make that stop in the morning,my 85 year old dad has gotten to the point he has some "to do liist" items and it was all I could do to remember all that this morning!
I did make it by Orielys and ordered the sleeve!. I am still going to fill the small pits on the shaft and smooth it up so this modern seal will have a smooth surface to ride on. The pits are not large but when oil is involved it seeks out the tinyest of places to escape.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


Original Smith
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by Original Smith » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:25 am

I don't know what year Ford went to the wide seal, but the earlier T's use a narrow seal. I'm fortunate to have a supply of both. I don't understand two of the pictures above. They don't look like any T I've ever seen.


tdump
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by tdump » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:34 am

Well I ordered my speedy sleeve yesterday and got it this morning.Gene,your envolope should be there monday.It is in the turtles bag and headed your way.
Attachments
DSC00120.JPG
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


tdump
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by tdump » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:39 pm

Question. The lip on the speedy sleeve,considering the crank seal is not all the way back against the gear on the crankshaft,the lip of the speedy sleeve would need to be removed once it was on the crank shaft because the seal runs a 1/4 inch or a tad more ahead of the gear right?
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

User avatar

Bill Robinson
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:24 pm
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Robinson
Location: Salty Bottom, AL
MTFCA Number: 22487
MTFCI Number: 17887
Board Member Since: 1999
Contact:

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by Bill Robinson » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:55 pm

Lynn Cook's method of installing a crankshaft seal. The good thing about his method is the fact that if the new seal ever goes bad it can be replaced without separating the pan and the block, or removing the engine. Anyone who knew him will agree that back in Lynn's day, he could always find a better way.
https://tennesseets.weebly.com/uploads/ ... r_seal.pdf


tdump
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by tdump » Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:44 pm

I thought I would bump this because of the question about the lip of the speedy sleeve.
The seal is out from the gear a bit and I don't understand what to do about the lip on it.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


tdump
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Mack
Last Name: Cole
Location: North Carolina

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by tdump » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:35 pm

Bumpty again OK I was sent a Email from a nice fellow that explained the lip gets broken off after install. So that clears up the muddy water for me.Thanks folks the help I do get here.Without help from folks and affordable parts when needed,I couldn't enjoy this hobby.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


Kohnke Rebabbitting
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:12 pm
First Name: Herman
Last Name: Kohnke
Location: Clare, Iowa

Re: Crankshaft Seals

Post by Kohnke Rebabbitting » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:16 pm

Sealhttps://mtfca.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?mode=view&id=45984&sid=dd62cb3ad2a6b33d10608ec74363b3f6
Attachments
Ken's Model T 350.jpg
Ken's Model T 350.jpg
Ken's Model T 349.jpg
Ken's Model T 337.jpg
Ken's Model T 316.jpg

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic