Old Photo - Mail and Express TT

[abcarswell]

Need some help on trying to date this TT. It has short running boards and a demountable rear balloon tire. Obviously it would help if they would have included the front of the truck. Photo from Sumpter Valley Railroad (Oregon) archives courtesy of James Bane.

[Altair]

About the only way to tell is from the engine number, you could purchase a chassis with engine and fenders and then the fenders could be from several years. All the wood was custom made.

[Jack Putnam, in Ohio]

The body on the truck is aftermarket and not a Ford product. This would have been sold as a chassis. I am making an educated guess that the truck is a 1918 or 1919. The rear wheel looks to be a 23 inch wheel which was used on the early chassis. Also If I look very closely at the rear axle center I think I can see a reinforcing ring cast on the center differential, again this was only on the early rear axles. Just my thoughts, others may differ.

[abcarswell]

Just received this from James. Shows the license plate which narrows it down. Also shows the differential. Note the box with the “this side up” notation. Somethings don’t change...

[HPetrino]

I agree with Jack P. The few clues suggest a 1918 or 1919 TT. The license plate tells us it can't be any newer than a '21, but the bead on the rear end clam shells tell us it's a pretty early truck and it doesn't look new at all. That's probably as close as your going to get without more information.

[Wayne Sheldon]

I believe that 1918 and 1919 TTs left the factory only with solid rubber tire/wheels. However, after-market suppliers were offering pneumatic tire and wheels almost from the beginning. And when Ford began offering the pneumatics as an option dealers almost instantly began swapping them onto the earlier trucks for a small cost. Regardless, the truck is probably no newer than an early '20.

[Allan]

Further to add to 1918-9, it appears to have square wooden felloe non demountable front wheels. Did the trucks ever have forged running board supports, or are these pressed items fore runners of the 22 one piece supports used on the car chassis?

Allan from down under.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Allan, As far as I know, All TTs had the pressed channel running board brackets from the beginning. The only maybe exception might be some of the five or so prototypes built earlier in 1917. None of which are known to survive.

[Allan]

Wayne, I have never seen the forged brackets on a TT. It just seems strange that they were in use on the trucks and it took so long for them to be developed for the cars. Even stranger that they reverted to the forged brackets on the early A models and then changed to the pressed types later.

Allan from down under.

[Mark Gregush]

and some Model A's during the change over came with a mix of both types.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Allan, I always figured that they had the forge set up to stamp out the earlier brackets, all the tooling, forms, dies, gigantic stamping machine (although much smaller than the ones that stamped the front axles!). So they just kept making the forged brackets for the cars. The TT on the other hand, had to be tooled up. By that time, they had invested in more equipment to press channel pieces.One must recall the evolution of the processes. Hand forging developed into machine and die forging in the earlier days of the automobile. Pressing of flat steel into channels was more of a new idea. By the mid '10s Ford had found it was cheaper and faster. So for the new TT, it was a good first way to go.

The later model A however, has always bothered me. Not just the running board brackets, but also front and rear fender brackets were forgings for '28/'29, and then changed to channel stampings for '30/'31. The only thing I could think of, was that the outsourcing companies, or maybe Ford itself, may have simply had the forging machines available and idle, and simple chose to use them. Frankly,I find that idea a bit tough to swallow. But I don't know of any other reason myself?

[Allan]

Wayne, I once had an A frame with forged brackets at the front and pressed steel at the rear. Waste not, want not.

Allan from down under.