model T problem

Mr man · Post by **Mr man** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:59 pm

hello everyone, my name is Carson, im 12 and i just bought my first car, a 1924 model t touring, and coming home from breakfast, it ran rougher and rougher until it ran on only 2 cylinders. when we got home, we stopped it and i cleaned the spark plugs. i tried to start it and it barely started. it was running one one cylinder now i believe. i put the ruckstull into low and went down our driveway into the garage. it was pouring rain, so the engine and car was all wet. dad and i took out the coils and adjusted them a little, i hope we did not mess it up because neither of us know model t coils at all. we let it sit awhile until the rain stopped and it would not start. it tried, and fired a few times, but no luck so we popped the clutch on it, and the car started on one cylinder, and stalled out and it is still only running on one or two cylinders. i need some help, were trying to go to dinner tonight in it, if possible. i know they are so simple, and i have hope, but im not an expert. any ideas to get it going?

Thanks,
Carson Howdy Combs

Post by **John Dow** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:04 pm

Hi Carson, Since you say it's raining and the engine is wet, I'd first look at the timer to see if there is water in it or on the contacts. Good luck!!!

Post by **tdump** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:05 pm

If it was raining,your coil box and coils could be damp.in places you really cant see well.I will let others explain it better than I can.But the old coil box wood can absorb moisture and cause missfires. Dry out with a hair dryer the backside of the coil box,under the hood where the wires go.

Mr man · Post by **Mr man** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:11 pm

So, I know what the timer is, and what it looks like, but share on the car is it exactly?

Mr man · Post by **Mr man** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:12 pm

Where. Not share. Sorry

Post by **Duey_C** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:15 pm

Commutator dirty or the coil box itself? Original wood in the box? That'll shut 'em down especially in the rain.
Clean the commutator and try it. Man these guys are fast! Down on the front of the engine in front of the cam. Four wires and one wrench will take it off to look-see. 9/16 or 5/8 wrench on the strap? I can't remember that one.
The coils if working but not rebuilt can be quite forgiving on a running engine yet when correctly built-up can amaze.

Post by **DanTreace** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:22 pm

Mr. Man

Timer is located on the front plate of the engine, passenger side, held by a spring clamp under the large bolt head on the front plate.

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Best advice for new T owner is spend $32 and get copy of Ford Service, photos and the how to do all on the T. Known in vendors catalog as # T-1 for a reason

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Post by **JTT3** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:30 pm

The commentator is also called the timer. Open the hood on the passenger side, look at where you put oil in the engine and right beside it to the right you should see a cap that has wires attached to it. The cap will have a keep that keeps the cap tight. Follow the keep toward the oil cap and you will see where it’s bolted on. You will have to loosen it a bit and slide the keep off the cap. Pay attention to where the caps orientation is. Look inside and clean out anything in it with a paper towel. Also clean around the the brush or flapper on the cam shaft. Now squirt a little oil in the timer and run it around the contacts on the inside with your finger now reverse the way you took it off to put it back on. Be sure to tighten the bolt holding the keep in place on the tip of the cap. Others may give you a better description. Hope it helps a bit. By the way don’t mess with your coils. You can really mess them up if you don’t know what your doing. Also just wondering do you have a lid on your coil box? If so be sure it’s locked on and holding the coils in place. If you don’t have a lid then you’ll need to make sure the coils haven’t lifted up preventing them from making contact on the bottom terminals. Don’t push them down with the point only push on the wood edges. Good luck.

Mr man · Post by **Mr man** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:48 pm

Cool. I will try it. Is that the most likely reason its not working?

Post by **DanTreace** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:57 pm

Your troubles may be more related to attempting to adjust the 4 coils. If you twisted the nuts and changed the point settings, your coils may just not all fire and only one or two might. A buzzing coil doesn't always produce spark at the plug. And the coils have to seat very well into the box, on clean contacts too. Don't let any coils bounce off the box contacts, sometimes the contacts need to be tweaked up a bit for good contact. Coil solder pads need to be shiny too.

After you clean the rotor and timer contacts, clean, and add some thin oil, then try to get all four plugs to fire. Hand crank over with plugs out, but lying on the cylinder head for ground, wired up to plug leads, checking output of each coil when the timer contact juices each coil and you slowly turn over the engine.

Without all four coils firing all four plugs, visible fire from each, the T won't ever start.

Mr man · Post by **Mr man** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:56 pm

Yea. I noticed after adjustment that only one coil buzzes every few crank turns.

Post by **ivaldes1** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:30 pm

Test the coils with a good tester such as from a local model T club. Send to a good coil man like Ron Patterson et al. -- IV

Post by **Steve Jelf** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:03 am

Carson, the advice on the timer so far has been excellent, or it hasn't, depending on which timer you have. Can you get a picture of it so we'll know what we're talking about?

Several possible reasons have been suggested for firing on fewer than four cylinders.

1 Wet coil box wood. When you said pouring rain this is the first thing I thought of. When the wood gets wet you can have short circuits that take the current where it shouldn't go. The worst part of this is that the stray current can make carbon tracks which it continues to follow even after the wood dries out. The cure is to get rid of the wood and replace it with the Fun Projects coil box kit.

2 Bad plugs. One cylinder, quite possible. But two or three plugs going bad at the same time is unlikely.

3 Messed-with coils. Very possible. Without a reliable tester (HCCT, Strobo Spark, ECCT) and knowing how to use it, it's quite possible to get them out of adjustment. Perhaps somebody in your local club has a tester and can get your coils up to snuff. If not, you can send them to one of the coil guys (Ron Patterson, Brent Mize, Andy Loso).

4 Coils loose in the box. Yes, if they aren't making contact this can be a problem. But having the lid on and fastened down should prevent it.

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:14 am

An easy way to find out if your coils are causing the miss, or something else would be to find someone in your area who has a Model T which is running on coils and runs smoothly. Then borrow his coils and put them in your car. If your car runs smoothly, your problem is the coils. If it continues to run the same way, look elsewhere. Four most common causes of miss fire are faulty coils, bad or dirty spark plugs, timer problems, sticking or burnt valves. The valve problems can be found with a compression gauge. All cylinders should have approximately the same compression. The compression should be around 50 psi. Could be less at higher altitudes. Easy to replace spark plugs or coils, but harder to find timer problems.
Other problems could be bad wiring, incorrect placement of wires at timer or coil box. Wet or carbon streaked wood in timer, weak or dirty contacts in the coil box. The lid should also fit tightly on the coil box to hold the coils down so the bottom contact is good. One additional problem which is fairly easy to fix could be one or more of the wire terminals at the timer become grounded which would cause the coil to buzz continuously when the switch is turned to battery.
Norm

Mr man · Post by **Mr man** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:51 pm

Mr man · Post by **Mr man** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:54 pm

That's my timer. The guy I bought the t from replaced it before. He says a tiger brand timer. I pulled it off and noticed a nut was very loose. Could this be part of the problem?

Post by **Oldav8tor** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:04 pm

The nut that holds the brush on the shaft? In a word, "yes" it could cause problems if loose. Also check that the contact surfaces are clean.

Post by **RajoRacer** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:15 pm

It's a Tiger and a later imported repro, at that - orange colored insulator is how to tell from a vintage Tiger which has a maroon insulator.

Runway/raceway looks a bit funky also.

Mr man · Post by **Mr man** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:23 pm

What is the runway/raceway?

Post by **RajoRacer** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:06 pm

It's where the roller runs around in a circle. That needs to be very smooth - no ruts or bumps or ?

Post by **RajoRacer** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:07 pm

Oh, what nut was loose ? A contact wire terminal nut or the roller retaining nut ?

ThreePedalTapDancer · Post by **ThreePedalTapDancer** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:13 pm

Rebuild the coilbox with the plastic kit from fun projects. Readjust coils properly on coil tester. Make sure timer and wiring connections are all correctly functioning. Otherwise, you will be chasing your tail for a bit.

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Mr man · Post by **Mr man** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:54 pm

One of the 4 nuts on the outside that holds on the wires was loose

Mr man · Post by **Mr man** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:36 pm

It was the contact wire terminal bolt was loose. Oh, and the timer had a bunch or crud in it, so I cleaned it out and put it back on and put in a newer plastic coil, and now 2 coils buzz every once in awhile.

Mr man · Post by **Mr man** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:27 pm

Hey! I got it running again with the help of Mr John Warren, he's in my model T club! I'm so happy. Thanks again for all the help!

Post by **aDave** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:40 pm

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Post by **Bill Robinson** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:50 pm

You are a lucky man- Mr man! And never forget that Mr Warren helped you out!
Shhhh! You may need him again.

Mr man · Post by **Mr man** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:54 pm

Most definitely I will. Its not the first time I have required assistance from john.

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