Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

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JWalters
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Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

Post by JWalters » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:20 am

Another good tip from Herm on the old forum

By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Friday, August 31, 2012 - 05:25 pm:

"WE are not talking about cam ground lifters, you will never see those in a early Ford, as T's, A's, or B's.

This is what I have been talking about, why New, or used lifters have to be Butt! I have heard a lot of comments about Adjustable Lifters don't keep there settings, this is why. The high spots wear off, and the gap opens up.



Every Lifter I have ever had, was like this.



No. 1 lifter, .002 off, not done!

No. 2 Lifter, .002 off, not done!

No. 3 Lifter, Not Touched yet!

No. 4 Lifter Finished, both ends!



When you butt the bolt end, don't forget to tighten the lock, if it is that type!




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By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Friday, August 31, 2012 - 08:34 pm:

We Butt Lifters, valves, some push rods, and rocker Arms.

We use a valve grinder for Valves, lifters, rocker arms.




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By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Friday, October 04, 2013 - 05:58 pm:

I Butt both ends of a set of Model T lifters today and took some pictures of both ends.

I made 3 passes on the stone and took a picture showing valve end, and Cam end.

This is not unique to any lifters, valve surface, valve Butts, ring gap, ect.

It is up to the builder, and or the mechanic to check these parts for touch up.

This is why some have had lifters go out of adjustment and have had bad wear patterns on cam and lifters.




You can't expect much when high spots have to be worn off.



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By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Saturday, September 01, 2012 - 02:19 am:

These kind of lifters are always, and have always been ground flat. The whole point of the post has been to show that they are not, none of them, no matter what brand. Just like Aluminum pistons used to have expansion slots in the sides, and now some don't. Not because it is better, but because they are cutting labor cost.

Valves are never ready to use out of the Box, they should always be ground, they are not meant to be, I don't know of any good machine shop that will grind a seat, and just drop a valve in without facing, and Butting. Just face a valve, and drop it on a steel bench, or a floor, and then stick it back in a grinder, and see what it does. That kind of damage could have happened before you got the parts, and often does.



A good rule of thumb is, if it isn't your work, check it, and if it is your work, check it a second time!

You have to keep in mind that these were cut off on the bottom, before hardening with a cut off tool, which is why they show that kind of marking on the bottom, and are not true.

I am sure, probably 99 percent of all T, A, and B lifters were put in as is, and many sets of piston rings, without gaping. I have always said, engines will still run wore out.

Just depends what you are Satisfied with!




By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Thursday, October 03, 2013 - 11:52 pm:



1. Lock nut lifters are made at Bob's in Rockford, Il., they are the only lock nut type, and are the best.

2. All lifters have to be Butt on both ends.

3. Don't Mutilate a block by shorting tower height, they don't have enough wear surface to begin with.

4. Adjust the valves without the valve springs.

4.-A. You do NOT need to use three wrenches on the lifters if at first you wire wheel the bolt threads, and oil them.

5. Point the cam toe straight down, toward the pan rails, before adjusting.

6. Use a small light spring and put the valve through it and put it in the block.

7. The lifters should have a sticky wheel bearing grease on them on the lifter body, as it helps to hold the lifter up while pushing the lifter body sideways with the wrench. Adjust the lifter, and push down the valve and check the clearance, repeat until the gap is right.




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Lifters Butt, on both ends



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Valve up out of the way, just got done adjusting first valve lifter.



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RBrooks
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Re: Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

Post by RBrooks » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:09 pm

A spring under the valve is a good idea for setting clearance I like it!

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Re: Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

Post by bobster1 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:12 pm

Great advice, thanks for sharing this great knowledge!
Bob Richmon, 804 339 0584 bobveco@aol.com, 04 CDO, 07' Model N, 07 Model S Runabout, 10 Buick 16 Roadster, 11 T Tour, 19 Paco Speedster, 09 Indian, 10 Maxwell


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Re: Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

Post by modernbeat » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:52 pm

Are you grinding them flat, or crowned? That whetstone suggests "flat".
Flat would be much easier, and if you haven't found any issues with them, I'll follow suite.
Jason McDaniel

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Re: Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

Post by kelly mt » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:56 pm

I followed this advice on my last three motors. The new adjustable lifters had a tit in the face of every lifter and the bolt head were not flat or square. I ground the surfaces in my Black & Decker valve machine and as Herm says they stayed in adjustment and the cam lobe looks real good. BTW, they were ground flat.

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Re: Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

Post by JWalters » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:41 am

modernbeat wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:52 pm
Are you grinding them flat, or crowned? That whetstone suggests "flat".
Flat would be much easier, and if you haven't found any issues with them, I'll follow suite.
Flat

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Re: Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:48 am

Wow. The bolt heads too. Something learned today.
Forget everything you thought you knew.


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Re: Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

Post by JEC » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:58 am

I don't understand the use of the word "Butt" in reference to machining surfaces.
Can one of you guys explain it for me?


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Re: Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

Post by Kohnke Rebabbitting » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:33 pm

modernbeat wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:52 pm
Are you grinding them flat, or crowned? That whetstone suggests "flat".
Flat would be much easier, and if you haven't found any issues with them, I'll follow suite.
The Stone was used " Only " as a flat surface to stand the lifter on to take a picture. Grinding was done with the valve grinding attachments.

Thanks,
Herm.

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Re: Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

Post by JWalters » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:10 pm

JEC wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:58 am
I don't understand the use of the word "Butt" in reference to machining surfaces.
Can one of you guys explain it for me?
Both ends of the lifters are ground completely flat and exactly 90 degrees from the stem.
lifter butt.jpg
lifter butt.jpg (5.63 KiB) Viewed 2879 times

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Re: Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

Post by TFan » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:34 pm

In my experience we would call that faced. Jim
Back road kinda guy stuck on the freeway of life.


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Re: Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

Post by Kohnke Rebabbitting » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:32 am

TFan wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:34 pm
In my experience we would call that faced. Jim
You Face the Valve head, and Face the seat, and butt the valve stem.

Herm.

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Re: Pictures of why "ALL" lifters have to be Butt, New, or Used!

Post by TFan » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:14 am

I'm just talking general machining not just valves. Jim
Back road kinda guy stuck on the freeway of life.

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