Compressed Air Breakin

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browning
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Compressed Air Breakin

Post by browning » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:58 pm

Here are a few (not too good) videos of my 1914 rebuilt engine running on compressed air. Probably screwed it up - you'll figure it out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLWcRRVQkvs


James_B_NC
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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by James_B_NC » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:19 pm

That’s pretty cool!
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DHort
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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by DHort » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:06 pm

Neat. Looks and sounds like a locomotive.


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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by Jeepbone1 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:43 pm

I’d be interested to know how you made this setup.

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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by Tmodelt » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:16 pm

Timer supplies electrical circuit to open and close air solenoid valves that are attached to the head at the spark plug hole. The air supplied through the solenoid operated air valves are taking the place of ignition cycle. Is my assessment correct?

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George House
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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by George House » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:28 pm

Would it be possible to get a close up still shot of the made-up plumbing fittings manifold? Thank you
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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by Duey_C » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:05 pm

Kim sure nailed it. Pretty darn cool video David!
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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by Roz » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:34 pm

What is the advantage of “breaking in” an engine with air instead of running in the car?


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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:00 pm

It's a clever set up, but at the risk of being flooded with hate mail, I think it has few benefits and a number of downsides.

Specifically, it is not running at any kind of normal operating pressure on any surface. Incessantly idling a new engine can have bad results for rings and I cannot believe that this setup improves things any in that regard. And finally, operating temperatures are not attained, thus none of the parts reach their designed operating dimensions.

Again, it's quite clever, but I don't see any net benefit coming out of this, particularly given the effort expended to accomplish it. It is sort of a Model T Marble machine; it's intesting to watch and listen to, provides no obvious benefit and took time, effort and a good deal of creativity to make, but in the end, solves no problem. And, yes, I know there are compressed air engines. A T is not a compressed air engine nor was it designed to be one, and I recognise that the OP is not suggesting this, so there's no point going down that path.

Giving credit where credit is due, I am guessing that this workshop either has generated, or will generat, a number if very interesting projects and devices based on the creativity on display here.
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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by Les Schubert » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:35 pm

Consider that a lubricator is included in the air line, so the rings are being reasonably lubricated


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browning
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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by browning » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:10 am

I'll post answers as I have time. I don't enjoy reading long posts and assume you don't either. First, to answer the Model T Sanhedrin, the reason I originally developed the system was about a decade ago when I was in my Fordson phase. Fordson tractors share some engineering with the T but present a number of additional difficulties. They are notoriously hard to crank at any time and especially after a rebuild. From the factory they had no allowance for battery assist and required a strong magneto and a rapid stroke with the hand crank. They never did have an electric starter so the Armstrong method was required and they should not be towed to start due to the very deep worm gear reduction in the rear end. Towing can easily result in a broken brass ring gear and a tight engine increases the risk of that. The only other alternative is running them in on a power takeoff flat belt (that is what Henry did in the factory) but not everyone or every tractor has the flat belt option and not every rebuilder has the belt or the second necessary tractor. Hence the air assisted breakin idea. Video of that experiment is on Youtube and you can find it if you look a little. Not only was it fun - it was effective and a few hours of running on air made the engine much easier to turn over by hand. More to follow


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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:54 am

David

running a hand cranked tractor on air to limber it up makes all the sense in the world given what you described. Still am not convinced a car needs it, though I now know know you have a good sense of humor. Sanhedrin, indeed!
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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:18 am

I'm with Scott on this. Very cool ingenious set up but if it's able to be turned over with air it's probably a lot easier just running it.
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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by Tim Rogers » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:04 am

Here's the schematic if you want to build one :lol: :

rupe.jpg
rupe.jpg (31.99 KiB) Viewed 1045 times

Very cool setup, I could listen to that all day!
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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by Les Schubert » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:42 am

I equivocate this to all the different perspectives in T ignition systems.
20 years ago I was trying to start my 13 and ended up towing it along my 1/4 mile of driveway. Fortunately my wife is a farm girl and was good help. This air crank method would have been well worth considering. Actually I have checked my “inventory” and I have 4-1/4” 12volt solenoids and I picked up a lubricator yesterday. I have a couple of hand crank engine projects and this sounds like a good option.

30 years ago I did a old Fordson tractor, but I was younger and stronger then. As I recall I wired the the ignition to a battery for the initial start!!
Anyway I am TOTALLY pro choice on this!!


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browning
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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by browning » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:30 pm

Actually the complexity issue is not so bad. You can use an old (cracked) cylinder head and a used head gasket at no cost. Once you have spent a few dollars and a few hours building the manifold and plumbing and wiring up a separate timer and harness the installation on the engine is about five or ten minutes. I remove the head, wiring, and timer as an assembly and keep it on the shelf as one piece. The fact that the engine can be run on the stand as soon as it will hold oil is convenient. The one in the video was found to have an oil leak at the mounting bracket that will require some brazing and I'm sure glad I found it before I installed it in a car. Another perceived benefit is that the engine can be run for a few hours after rebuild with relatively light weight high detergent oil to wash out all of the crud that you missed during rebuild. I have been intentionally overfilling the oil during the breakin to insure good front end lubrication since I don't have to worry about fouling the plugs etc.


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Re: Compressed Air Breakin

Post by StanHowe » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:38 pm

Pretty ingenious although more time consuming that I would ever spend to do it. I have a gear reduction motor I picked up somewhere years ago that will turn the engine over at about 100 rpm, hangs on a cut off crank with a coupler and will run for days on end for about a nickels worth of electricity. I've used it several times to "break in" an engine not only on T's but several other engines in the last 30 or so years. It really does help, I think.

Cool idea, I like the chuff, chuff it makes as it rolling the engine over.

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