Seat Spring Fit?

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MWalker
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Seat Spring Fit?

Post by MWalker » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:48 pm

I guess this is how these springs are supposed to fit.
DSCN5035.JPG
There's no room for the back spring to go any lower. It looks as if it's too tall, since it's several inches above the top of the body panels. But it's easy to bend down to where it's even with the body panels.
DSCN5036.JPG
So is this what happens when the upholstery is applied?


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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by Allan » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:42 pm

Mike, it is usual for the backrest to go right down to the seat base, and the seat squab to sit in front of it. Over generous stuffing of the backrest can make fitting the squab in front of it somewhat difficult. Even that can be compensated for by making a new lip on the front of the seat support base to allow the seat to sit forward a little.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:01 pm

looking harder at it, I think you simply need to drop the spring assembly down to sit on or nearly sit on the bottom seat frame (like Allan said now that I reread his post) and then everything will look fine when stuffed. Don't over stuff the bottom portion, though. The bottom seat cushion needs to squish hard against it and snap into the bottom frame forward steel lip.

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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by MWalker » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:07 pm

Ok, thanks to you both.


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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by Jim Sims » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:12 pm

I have only done about 6 cars. But on all of them the seat back is slightly above the seat bottom spring. This allows the cushion to be pushed in place without compressing the back springs and having problems fitting in the seat bottom frame.


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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:58 pm

Jim

my '23 project is just like you suggest. However, that spring is vastly different than the early-type spring that Mike is dealing with. Take a closer look at his spring and see that it has far fewer coil rows than the later springs and is far taller than later springs, and if lifted off the seat frame bottom to clear the bottom seat spring like later cars, would end up sticking up 6-7" over the top of the body.
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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by Jim Sims » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:33 pm

Scott, If the main heavy metal frame is lifted a little higher,then the top of the springs are curved like the second picture this gives a nice rounded top to the upholstery. Yes this will be above the top of the body metal. At this is like my unrestored 17 is

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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by DanTreace » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:46 pm

As posted, the backrest spring does need to hug tight to the lower body panel, to make room for the finished seat spring.

Photo is 1915 with seat unit spring upholstery removed, and showing where ends of hinge for the gas tank panel cover (missing) would mount, so you can see the backrest is indeed recessed there.

IMG_1550.jpeg
tqengQFHHS+cCB4BR+)3QdjHQ~~60_3 (700x466) (640x426).jpg
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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by MWalker » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:18 am

Dan -- In your second pic, the backrest spring extends several inches above the top of the body panels. Is this the way it's supposed to be? As shown in my first post, it's easy to bend the top of the spring down, forming a roll at the top of the seat.


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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:49 am

If you have opened the link I supplied, you have seen an original version of a very similar spring, doing the exact same thing (sitting on seat bottom and extending over the top edge of the body), on an early car. I think somewhere you stated that your spring cannot go lower and yet in the picture it appears to be off of the seat bottom by an inch.

Understand that on many of these springs, the top former wire was simply held by a loop of old material that was subsequently tacked to the upper rail...it does not necessarily HAVE to be even with the rail but of course needs some sort of support. In all honesty, something still doesn't look quite right to me on the wood, but I don't have personal knowledge of this year car's structure and do not wish to offend, arouse, or poke Charlie into calling out my inadequacies on that subject.

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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by KWTownsend » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:56 am

Mike-
I think the top of your backrest spring is too high.
Here is my 1919:
1919 back seat 5 - Copy.jpg
The bottom of the spring assemble should be just above the upholstery tack strip along the bottom of the seat. Evough clearance so the frame of the lower cushion spring fits below the backrest spring.

: ^ )


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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:12 pm

Keith

that's a great photo and good of you to post.
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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by HornsRus » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:34 pm

scott!! dont be picking on mikes wood .he is doing the best he can with that crape old wood kit.ha,ha. charley


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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by MWalker » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:16 pm

Scott -- I just looked at that link you provided, and I like the pic of the very worn original seat. I'll show that to the guy who will do my upholstery when I get to that point, so he can see what a real one looked like.

In my first post, I put the bottom spring in place and slipped the backrest behind it, without pushing it down. It ended up two or three inches above the seat bottom. It can go lower if it is compressed some by the bottom spring. Some have suggested that the backrest spring should go to the seat bottom, and some have said that it should go on top of that bottom tack strip. If it goes to the seat bottom, it would interfere with tacking the upholstery to the tack strip. If it sits on top of the tack strip, there would be no interference and it would be positioned slightly to the rear, so the bottom spring wouldn't need to compress it as much. I'm liking that second method. At any rate, it will form a roll at the top when the upholstery is applied.

On a happy note, I delivered the car to the body shop today! The next time I see it, it will be shiny black! :)

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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by KWTownsend » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:13 pm

Mike-
I think you have the right plan. We look forward to the return of your body!

Be sure to slip in a piece of anti-rattle cardboard before you do the upholstery and for goodness sake, TAKE SOME PICTURES!

When I did my back seat upholstery nearly 30 years ago I happened to think of taking some snapshots after I tacked the bottom in place. If course that was back in the day of cameras and 35 mm film. It looks like I took digital images of my pictures and saved them in a file 15 years ago.

: ^ )

Keith


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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:21 pm

Mike

I believe that you have solved your problem. Good for you.
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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:06 pm

If the touring is anything like the runabout, you need to install the tack strip before mounting the backrest springs. There might be the same clips that hold the backrest to the tack rail. The back spring I pulled out of a 20 front seat, touring, the spring was rolled over under the padding. See my next posting on how the clips were mounted to tack rail, this is why I have the photos, mental notes on paper thing! :lol:
Attachments
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Last edited by Mark Gregush on Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:48 pm

A few more photos
Attachments
0196_2017-01-28_18-46-22.jpg
0245_2017-01-28_19-28-28.jpg
0244_2017-01-28_19-28-20.jpg
0243_2017-01-28_19-28-10.jpg
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Re: Seat Spring Fit?

Post by R.V.Anderson » Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:24 pm

Here's a closeup of one of the spring clips shown in Mark's photos, though his are in much better condition:
1919-20 touring rear seat spring top edge 007.JPG
If they don't come with/on the new spring it wouldn't be too hard to fabricate the dozen or so needed.

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