A Complicated Man

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Jugster
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A Complicated Man

Post by Jugster » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:36 pm

a complicated man f.jpg

Henry Ford was a difficult man to understand. Those who invested in his vision did, for the most part, come out ahead in terms of dollars and cents, but when he parted company with the likes of Alexander Y. Malcomson, John and Horace Dodge and several others, it was not on good terms. Likewise, his business relationships with men like James Couzens who proved indispensable during the early days of Ford Motor Company, and to whom he owed his success, almost always ended on a sour note. One of the very rare exceptions was Charles E. Sorensen, who worked closely with Ford for forty years. The basic recipe for his success was to stay out of the public eye and avoid taking credit for any work he did for the egotistical Mr. Ford. It must have worked because Sorensen's explosive temper never got him into any real trouble with the boss. Henry demanded undeviating obedience, resolute dedication and a Sisyphean work ethic. He rewarded blind loyalty and tolerated not one split second of independent initiative. Ford seemed to have a strong belief in survival of the fittest and so, provoked power struggles among his lieutenants, keeping the survivors and discarding the losers.

From the outset, his goal was simplicity. That meant designing a lightweight, no-frills automobile which would be as functional as a can-opener, simple to mass-produce, simple to drive, simple to maintain—and simply the most affordable car in the world. Every schoolboy knows this was the Model T. Produced in greater numbers than any American car ever made even to this very day, this was the car that put the world on wheels. The little Flivver changed American society from agriculture to manufacture. It caused a great migration from rural to urban areas. It created a need for, and the unprecedented building of, paved roads from coast to coast. It made the United States into an industrial titan such as had never before existed. And it made Henry Ford a billionaire.

Mr. Ford stubbornly clung to his beloved Model T long after the car was hopelessly obsolete and made no contingency plans for follow-up projects until it was almost too late. The longish interval between the discontinuation of the Model T in May of 1927—with the accompanying devastating layoff of some 60,000 workers—and start-up production of the Model A at least six months later, seemed to be the antithesis of Henry's revolutionary five-dollar day and sociology department policies. And what of the experimental X-engine? Well, obviously, it didn't work out, but that's beside the point that the X-engine was a very risky investment; an unconventional, radical prototype envisioned by a man who is almost always thought of as obstinately conventional with a blazing hatred of change. Trying to follow Henry Ford's line of reasoning was like trying to follow a marble across a warped floor.

Anyway, the 1928 Ford Model A did make its debut with a great, big international splash, but it was really little more than a stop-gap car which fought a four-year holding action while Ford's V-8 powered Model 18 was in development. Though out-sold by the competition, there survive, nevertheless, a whole lot more Model A Fords than just about anything else of the same vintage. Go figure. The subsequent V-8 powered Ford was the favorite get-away car of Bonnie and Clyde. In fact, Clyde was so impressed, he wrote Henry Ford the following letter:

Dear Sir:
While I still have got breath in my lungs I will tell you what a dandy car you make. I have drove Fords exclusivly when I could get away with one. For sustained speed and freedom from trouble the Ford has got ever other car skinned and even if my business hasen't been strickly legal it don't hurt enything to tell you what a fine car you got in the V8.
Yours truly,
Clyde Champion Barrow

And how did Mr. Ford feel about his car being used to perpetrate crimes by the world's most famous team of mass-murdering bank robbers? Well, he preserved the letter and today it is on display at The Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan. Hey, a good consumer report is a good consumer report.

Now, reading five or ten books on the subject doesn't make me an automotive historian. Still, it's hard not to pick up on a consistent thread running through all the accounts. I suspect there's less mystery surrounding Henry Ford's behavior, especially in his later years, than most experts acknowledge. It's my personal belief that as he aged, he mistook dumb, doo-dah luck for destiny, became an unshakable believer in his own infallibility while, at the same time, simply becoming senile. But hey, I could be wrong—happens all the time—just ask my wife.

In any case, because of Henry's erratic behavior, Ford Motor Company was very much at a tipping point in 1943, when, at the behest of the U.S. government, Ford's grandson, Henry II, was sent home from the Navy to stabilize the situation with the company so heavily involved in the war effort as to produce more B-24 Liberator bombers than the airplane's own designer and manufacturer, Consolidated Aircraft Corp. (thanks to Charles Sorensen who managed to hold things together in the meanwhile). Henry II won a power struggle with Harry Bennett, a union-busting mobster whose ability to intimidate was very useful to and much admired by Henry Ford, Sr. Bennett, who at the prompting of Henry Ford, Sr., had made Edsel Ford's life a living hell, was in line to inherit the presidency of the company and may well have done so if not for direct intervention by Henry Ford, Sr's. wife, Clara (she being the only person in the whole, wide world for whom her husband held genuine fear). Henry Ford II took over the presidency of the company in September of 1945, fired Bennett and Henry Ford, Sr. died in April 1947—his hearse, a Packard.

If one were to write a cold, objective obituary to sum up the life of Henry Ford Sr., what might it say? Well, Henry Ford was basically a funnel. He gathered together exactly the right type of investors, like the Dodge Brothers, Alexander Malcolmson, and Charles Bennett; engineering geniuses like Josef Galamb, C. Harold Wills, Spider Huff and William Knudsen; production men like Charles Sorensen, Ernest Kanzler and Peter Martin; and sharp businessmen like James Couzens. They all went into the wide end of the funnel and Ford Motor Company came out the other end. Then, with few exceptions, those who believed in Henry Ford and invested in him, be it with money or blood, sweat, tears or loyalty, were simply discarded—frequently in a most heartless and undignified manner.

Without these people, Henry Ford was little more than a superbly gifted and intuitive mechanic—and if you can stretch the definition of "engineer" to include someone who cannot read blueprints or working drawings, I guess you could call him that—but in no way was he in the same class as authentic engineering geniuses like Nikola Tesla (whose intellect and creativity would have put Leonardo Da Vinci to shame). Whatever his reliance on associates and investors, Henry Ford himself was audacious enough to take enormous risks such as the famous Selden Patent court battle, which might have ruined him and Ford Motor Company, had the coin happened to land on the other side.

As a human being, Ford, though uneducated in the academic sense, was a visionary with a great knack for organizing. Having achieved unprecedented success, he became a megalomaniacal dictator, growing worse and worse as his success increased. He ruled through the intimidation of underworld thugs who had no compunctions about beating assembly line workers into submission. Anti-Semitic enough to have been the only American to receive complimentary mention in Hitler's memoir, "Mein Kampf," he had also received from Nazi officials, a medal, the "Grand Cross of the German Eagle," on the occasion of his seventy-fifth birthday. Ford's personal relations were a horror story and to cement that point, one need only mention the names of his two sons; John Dahlinger, borne to him by his mistress of some thirty years, Evangeline Cote Dahlinger, and Edsel Ford, whom he tormented and humiliated to the point where many automotive historians have posed the question of whether Henry literally drove Edsel into an early grave.

Yes, Henry Ford was a visionary, but his vision was built squarely on the shoulders of other people, and whether personally or in business, when you shook hands with Henry Ford, you counted your fingers immediately afterward.


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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:37 pm

Were all our faults to be laid bare for the ages, many of us would fair no better in hindsight. He was who he was... a product his times, judged in our times, as if modern society is the pillar of propriety, justice and moral excellence. Not interested in revisionist whining.


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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by tdump » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:55 pm

I tried to get a pic of that letter when I was in the Henry Ford Museum.
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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by DanTreace » Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:13 pm

Bob

Certainly a lot of your prose is part of the more modern view of Henry, focusing on conflict and envy. Not that anything you wrote can't be traced to factual activity, there is still more, but less-mentioned sides of Henry's character and actions.

He may have been un-educated in academic sense, but strove to preserve knowledge and provide opportunities for learning to thousands. Quoted often today history is bunk, he caused to amass a huge record of historical collections, still housed today. Claims are the archives hold enough paper and photos, if stacked on each other are six times higher than the Empire State Building. Ford kept everything, even a letter he wrote to Santa Claus when he was 8 years old, and later as well as small note books he always carried with him. Today the results are the Archives and Greenfield Village, preserving his works and works of others that changed America and the world.

Later in 1940 he was quoted again about his 'bunk' statement, and doubled down, saying "Now, I say history is bunk--bunk--double bunk. Why it isn't even true. They wrote what they wanted us to believe, glorifying some conqueror or leader or somethings like that." What Henry practiced was establishing a means that people could see for themselves the history of culture and achievement, the result of his Village and Museum that provide the real look at history, without just reading words of writers about it.

His educational activities focused on the youth. His Trade Schools in Dearborn, by 1938 there were 6 thousand students at his trade schools, and many others, including millions of dollars to assist Martha Berry in the twenties for her Berry Schools for the underprivilege. The Gothic buildings on today's Berry College campus are named in Henry and Clara's honor. Ford also pioneered technology in his schools, he thought tech was slighted in schools because few taught history of technology, so he used motion pictures to provide visualization of rather than verbalization. Then you can't leave out his devotion to medical care, building one of the best hospitals in America, that is still providing care, Henry Ford Hospital, now the Henry Ford Heath System, was the first hospital in the country to have a closed, salaried medical staff.

Finally, the Ford family left a most reaching force for education, with the Ford Foundation.

Needless to add, Henry was a complicated man, but so were the times of his age, from agriculture base to technology, to two World wars, and a Great Depression. His life's passion was to create and build, from a farmer, electrical works manager, to auto racer, and then auto maker, and that provided so much for so many, that is his legacy IMO.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

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Bible & Verse

Post by FreighTer Jim » Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:25 pm

When Model T Folks usually discuss anything to do with Henry Ford - it inevitably ends up some variation of the narrow perspective seen thru Rosy Glasses 🤓

I have educated myself about the first few years
and developed my own perspective based on the research of those principal players around Henry Ford.

Alexander Malcomson - for example - was responsible for the ability of Henry Ford to
obtain money - you can read about his Life beginning here:

@ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Y._Malcomson

I encourage anyone with and objective and curious mind to do their own independent research about the first few years.

You probably will be surprised at what you discover for yourself ... 🧐


FJ
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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by jiminbartow » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:08 pm

Thank you, Bob, for a very interesting post. Everything you wrote is accurate and there is not one thing in it, that I have not read in other sources. H.F. was an amazingly flawed person in many ways and it is hard for many who have him on a pedestal to be reminded that the man responsible for our beloved T was not a nice person. That is the way it usually is with Powerful megalomaniacs that do not need to answer to anyone, nor have any bounds. We don’t have to like the man who was responsible for the wonderful Model T and many other accomplishments such as mass production, but it is unreasonable to deny and hide from his multitude of well documented flaws as a human being and/or criticize those who are honest about the man. Jim Patrick


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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by VanEpsFan1914 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:19 am

Thank you, Mr. Coiro, for a fascinating post on the life of Henry Ford. He was a very interesting man without whom the world would be a much different place.

One hypothesis about Henry Ford's personality is that he may have been on the autism spectrum.^1^ Autistics are generally resistant to change (perhaps this explains why he built the T into the late 1920s, while the market proved people wanted sliding-gear transmissions and bigger engines) and can tend to pigeonhole ideas and form mindsets based on groups--as he may have done with the Jews. Conspiracy theories and the lump-sum mentality go hand in hand; autism intensifies this.

On the postive note his long-term fascination with machinery did serve him well; he couldn't have been more dedicated to the idea of fixing and making mechanical things. High-functioning autism (once diagnosed as Aspergers' until the publication of the DSM-V) does not cause retardation but can even enhance some mental acuity while being something of a social impairment. Autistic self-advocacy groups (which I'm a bit skeptical of; I don't like watching people play the identity games) tend to treat Henry Ford as one of the better examples of how their people can "make good" in the world. In an era when psychology focused only in treating diseases (and wasn't too good at that) Henry Ford's possible mental disorder would have gone unnoticed; he would have been seen, like Edison, as an eccentric genius. (Edison's life story & personal journals give some credibility to the guesses that he also was "high functioning" autistic.)

It seems crazy but after having to read a great deal about the stuff I'm suspecting that the hypothesis is at least worth investigating. If Edison and Ford were both autistic, this doesn't exonerate them from some of their strange behaviors, but it is helpful to perhaps understand them as who they really were--not industrialists or inventors, not villains or plaster angels, but as men, men who, like everyone else, played the best they could play with the hand they were dealt.

^1^ https://www.aspergerstestsite.com/898/f ... le-autism/


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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Dropacent » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:26 am

The absolute worse place to get history is from Wikipedia, as any fool can easily edit it to suit their whim or fancy. Poor choice to learn from.


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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Dropacent » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:31 am

9EDE4D26-5B0F-48D7-8032-B94561C4E1EF.jpeg


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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by fschrope » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:31 pm

I love Wikipedia, but I realize its limitations. There is a lot of good information there.

Having said that, consider this. Why do we believe everything we read in the history books of years ago?

If you read a school history book about our Civil War in Boston, it will read a lot different that one in Montgomery Alabama.
Which one is right??


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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Dropacent » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:20 pm

What do you desire, fact or opinion? I’ll take my chances with well vetted factual historical articles.

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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by RustyFords » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:23 pm

Call me weird, but the first thing I always think when looking at that Barrow/Ford letter is that, back in the day, even the thugs had good penmanship.

The schools were still teaching it.

I'm 51 and am often told that I have beautiful handwriting. But I'm from the last generation taught this in school.
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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Rich Bingham » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:30 pm

Dropacent wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:26 am
The absolute worse place to get history is from Wikipedia . . .
Worse than online fora ?!? :shock: :shock: :lol:
"Get a horse !"


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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by VanEpsFan1914 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:41 pm

Rich Bingham wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:30 pm
Dropacent wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:26 am
The absolute worse place to get history is from Wikipedia . . .
Worse than online fora ?!? :shock: :shock: :lol:
This is the stuff I like the forum for: self-aware humor and general kindliness. You guys get to the bottom of history while still taking it easy on one another, most of the time.

As far as Wikipedia goes, I don't think it's entirely evil but I am forbidden from using it in my college classes because the professors believe in teaching actual research. Wikipedia's only use is for "footnote chasing," where you go to the very end of the article and hunt for a reference--but if you have a library nearby or access to a traditional online research database, then that is often just as good or maybe easier.

For antique books Project Gutenberg and the Internet Archive are nice places to go find old public-domain literature, but for alternative historical fiction I just lurk quietly reading the Adventures of Kalamity Dick in the off topic section--


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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:02 pm

VanEpsFan1914 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:41 pm
Rich Bingham wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:30 pm
Dropacent wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:26 am
The absolute worse place to get history is from Wikipedia . . .
Worse than online fora ?!? :shock: :shock: :lol:
This is the stuff I like the forum for: self-aware humor and general kindliness. You guys get to the bottom of history while still taking it easy on one another, most of the time.

As far as Wikipedia goes, I don't think it's entirely evil but I am forbidden from using it in my college classes because the professors believe in teaching actual research. Wikipedia's only use is for "footnote chasing," where you go to the very end of the article and hunt for a reference--but if you have a library nearby or access to a traditional online research database, then that is often just as good or maybe easier.

For antique books Project Gutenberg and the Internet Archive are nice places to go find old public-domain literature, but for alternative historical fiction I just lurk quietly reading the Adventures of Kalamity Dick in the off topic section--
Hey Charles, are you lost? I guess since phonos and T's both have cranks... :)


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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by VanEpsFan1914 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:26 am

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:02 pm
Hey Charles, are you lost? I guess since phonos and T's both have cranks... :)
:) Hello Mr Jerry, not quite--but kind of. The quarantine lockdown will do that!

I just like reading about any & all things 1890s-1940s, and both the artifacts of that period and the history of the people involved are fascinating. If you think I'm lost here I once spent several days reading & re-reading David McCullough's book on the Panama Canal...it was pretty cool too.

The life of Henry Ford is just neat. It's kind of like Edison's...one of America's most influential people of that era, but they went from lionized to demonized to footnotes in just one hundred years. There's always time to review the men who shaped history--and what Mr. Dan Treace said earlier clarifying Mr. Ford's famous "history is bunk" statement really cleared up a lot for me. So this is a pretty neat place to read about history and cars.

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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:16 am

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
~ Saint Paul


Nobody's perfect.
~ Joe E. Brown in Some Like It Hot


The best of people have their flaws, and the worst of people have their virtues. George Washington is widely admired for his honesty and selfless service. But he practiced slavery. Adolf Hitler murdered millions, but he was a teetotaler, a non smoker, and was personally kind to pets and children. Frank Lloyd Wright was a great architect but abandoned his wife and children. Paul Gaugin was a great artist, but did the same. Richard Wagner was a great composer and a vicious anti-semite. Henry Ford changed the world and used his fortune to do good things, but he was not nice (some might say reprehensible) in his dealings with many people. I believe we can recognize and admire people's accomplishments while we recognize and deplore their failings.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:44 pm

Steve Jelf wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:16 am
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
~ Saint Paul


Nobody's perfect.
~ Joe E. Brown in Some Like It Hot


The best of people have their flaws, and the worst of people have their virtues. George Washington is widely admired for his honesty and selfless service. But he practiced slavery. Adolf Hitler murdered millions, but he was a teetotaler, a non smoker, and was personally kind to pets and children. Frank Lloyd Wright was a great architect but abandoned his wife and children. Paul Gaugin was a great artist, but did the same. Richard Wagner was a great composer and a vicious anti-semite. Henry Ford changed the world and used his fortune to do good things, but he was not nice (some might say reprehensible) in his dealings with many people. I believe we can recognize and admire people's accomplishments while we recognize and deplore their failings.

As always Steve, very well stated. Goes along with one of my beliefs in life that nobody is completely good or completely bad. You just look for a predominance of good over bad.

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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Tim Rogers » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:05 pm

ford.jpg
<o><o><o><o> Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks - Forum member since 2013 <o><o><o><o>

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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Susanne » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:53 pm

I talked to a few friends of mine... their families are vehemently anti-Ford, pro-GM, brands, (Think the "C" word) and it dates back to their great grandparents wanting nothing to do with this guy or his cars over this very issue... and those feelings were passed down, father to son.

Hey, you can, I guess, think and believe what you want, but his backwards attitudes about this sure didn't boost sales among potential customers.

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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:54 pm

RE" "Now, I say history is bunk--bunk--double bunk. Why it isn't even true. They wrote what they wanted us to believe, glorifying some conqueror or leader or somethings like that." Kinda have to agree on that, history is passed on by the winners and in the form they want you to remember. Growing up in the 60s and 70s, how much white washed "history" have I had to un-learn, but remembering when it was written taken with a grain of salt.
Steve thank for that quote, I can see the part it was taken from in "Some Like It Hot"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mHhr-aaLnI
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by VanEpsFan1914 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:54 pm

I am sure there are some T fans here who know the Jones & Hare song, "Since Henry Ford Apologized to Me." It's mostly satirical and lightly ridicules Jewish people for suddenly embracing Ford after the publication of that apology for some of the antisemitism in the Dearborn Independent.

So I can see how as Susanne says "his backwards attitudes didn't boost sales among potential customers."

It's pretty interesting how this stuff was noticed back then, too, and Ford isn't just being criticized by modern writers.

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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:56 pm

I've read plenty on HF and truthfully the nicest thing I can say is I'm glad I never worked for him. Aside from family he basically died alone. No one hung around from the old days and some left 2 skid marks at the factory front door as their cheeks hit the pavement on the way out. The actions involving Edsel amaze me. He'd have been better off if he was disowned early on. The Bennett business is also amazing. Goes a long way to show what kind of a person he was. He had a really good idea at exactly the right time and almost tossed it away. Twice. This isn't high intelligence. It's plain hillbilly stuborness that happened to play out in his favor. I believe Clara stepped in at least 3 times; 1; After walking away twice stick with this factory. Or else. 2; Sign the union contract. Or else. 3; Step aside for HF Jr. Or else. She also may have had something to do with HF coming to work after refusing to retire the T for who knows how long and suddenly saying it's over. Move on. Lord only knows what she had to say about the mistress. I could go on but the point is moot and I said it in the first line: I'm glad I never worked for him.
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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Dropacent » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:45 pm

I probably could have gotten through the day without reading of hitler’s perceived good attributes. I’ll bet a lot of exterminated Jewish and minority children would disagree. IMHO , it’s never a good idea to use der schnicklegruber as an example.


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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:49 pm

Everyone of us is but one or two generations removed from some ancestors' vile, (by today's standards), acts or beliefs. Each one of us will be viewed by our grand or great-grandchildren as having obviously ignored, overlooked, denigrated or abused someone or something or missed an opportinity to "fix" something that should have been TOTALLY OBVIOUS to us but regretably, is not.

The lens that we view history with is often a magnifying glass while that of the the present is more often than not, like blinders. Assuming you are of any noteworthyness or prone to history making today, it is nearly certain that someone will criticize and revile you and I for some presently unpredictable thing in the future. Myself, I don't lose any sleep over it. Who is the better person, the one who toils in mediocrity and their sins remain for all eternity buried in anonymity or the person who creates things of incalculable benefit for mankind and simultaneously due to fame, has their flaws laid bare? I would hate to be the arbiter of that and would definitely lose sleep if placed in that position.

I'll make a prediction: given the option to chose Henry Ford or Greta Thunberg as a person worthy of emulating, my choice will undoubtedly condemn me for all time.
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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Rich Bingham » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:21 pm

:shock: my gosh Scott ! You choose Greta ?!? :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:08 pm

I know. I tried to make it as hard a choice as possible. :roll:
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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:55 pm

I probably could have gotten through the day without reading of hitler’s perceived good attributes.

Agreed. He was an evil, demented SOB. I should have left him out.
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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by Susanne » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:29 pm

Scott_Conger wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:49 pm
I'll make a prediction: given the option to chose Henry Ford or Greta Thunberg as a person worthy of emulating, my choice will undoubtedly condemn me for all time.
Rich Bingham wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:21 pm
:shock: my gosh Scott ! You choose Greta ?!? :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
(Channeling my "inner Greta"...)

HOW DARE YOU! :x

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would also comment similarly, but then I would pull a ban for being political... so I'll be polite and say nothing! :lol:


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Re: A Complicated Man

Post by jiminbartow » Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:22 pm

I think Greta has had her 15 minutes of fame, because people (even those who agree with her) have discovered just how annoying and impossible to endure, her shrill rantings and ravings, for more than 15 seconds. Speculation has been submitted earlier on this thread that HR had autism. Greta Thunberg does have autism, which explains her fanatical support for climate change and her inability to accept anyone’s contrary opinion on the subject. Jim Patrick

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