Emergency Brake Issue

[lmitch]

It has been 2 years getting my 24 Roadster ready for the road. I left the emergency brake for one of the last items in order to move it around the shop easier. I mounted the wheels over the new brake linings and ran into a problem. In order for the cam to line up, the brake lever had to be pushed all the way forward (second gear). Now, obviously, as I pull back on the lever the brake engages before handle is straight up. What do I try next?

[23ford]

Adjust the clevis

[Oldav8tor]

Are the brake rods original to the car (ie. for the right year)? I found it easiest to adjust the emergency brake with both rear wheels lifted off the floor.

[lmitch]

Oldav8tor. Not sure if the rods are correct or not. It is a 24 body. 25 engine block. I've been told it is a 26 rear end.

[lmitch]

[image][/image]

[lmitch]

After referencing Service Manual and Parts List, I think I see. This is my first T so I'm slow sometimes. Didn't know the rear clevis was adjustable. So part 3465 "Hub Brake Lever" has a set screw?

[RajoRacer]

There should not be a rear adjustable clevis - just a split fork.

[Scott_Conger]

The adjustable end goes to the brake lever, the split fork goes to the rear axle

The 26-27 rods are shorter than all earlier versions which are around 54" or so long (so later ones are shorter than that). If you have the large drum late rear axle then I'd think your rods should be the shorter ones and just adjusted a little bit longer. So long as the car is held in neutral by the cam on the brake lever and you have somewhat of a neutral even if the lever is forward of vertical, that's fine. I give myself every bit of OOMPH room to sock the brakes down when necessary. If the lever is dead vertical and still in neutral with no brakes, you don't really have much to play with to get those brakes set.

[lmitch]

The shop in which my T resides is 100 miles from me. I can only work on it on weekends. Myself and a mechanic looked at the linkage system today and found no way to adjust. They are adjustable at the front of the brake rods via the threaded portion. They are extended fully and will not lengthen any more. Maybe they are the wrong rods. They are 52" long. Anyone have a measurement on the "24 brake rods?

I attached this photo. If you zoom in you can see the cam is parallel to the ground and the handle is in the maximum forward position. Based on everything else I've read, when the cam is parallel to the ground, the handle should be approximately perpendicular to the ground.

[image][/image]

[Allan]

Lee, you need the shorter of the two types of T brake rods for your 26-7 rear axle. If they are still too short, they have been modified. Other cars have some clevises with longer arms, and these may help. Check Snyder's A model catalog for these.

When adjusting them, I like to adjust them with the handbrake right forward, as it is when driving down the road. That way you have no drag when in gear. With the handle forward, push the levers on the cams back as far as you can by hand and then adjust the rods to suit that length.
As the lever is brought forward into the neutral position, the cams will come into level, giving you the best chance of a free neutral.
Further pull back on the lever will then engage the brakes.

If your cams, brake shoes and drums are worn, this may not be necessary, as there will be enough slop in the system to allow the brakes to be free when in gear, and still have a good free neutral.

Hope I have explained this well.
Allan from down under.

[DanTreace]

Lee

When you do get back to your chassis, be sure to recheck the position of the emergency brake shoe lever on the backing plate. The lever should be in be in the 'up position', and rearward prior to assembly of the brake shoe, as it can be flopped down in the wrong position.

As others mentioned, you may have to cut and rethread the rods, if they won't fit correct with the backing plate lever and the handbrake lever in the right position.



These photos may be of help to you.

[Scott_Conger]

Lee

your length question was answered 1 post before you asked it.

A close picture of the backside of the brake plate would be useful for those responding, and of course, Dan's description of the brake cam levers being "up" and tilted toward the rear of the car when the cams are parallel to the ground. Ideally, when the brake handle is straight "up", the cam levers that the brake rod attaches to, should be pretty well straight "up", too.

Since the rods appear to be or are at least acting like they're short, as fitted presently (correctly or incorrectly as we cannot tell yet), you can figure that cutting them off and rethreading them will probably not result in them being longer when you are done.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Another issue might be that the brake cams are swapped over from right side to left side.

[lmitch]

I think I'm missing something.
With the Brake Cam Levers upright, the cam itself is parallel to the ground. While in this position, the Hand Brake Lever is fully forward. When I pull on the Hand Brake Lever, it has very little travel. It will not even get to verticle/neutral. When I mounted the rear wheels, the drum was very tight against the pads. It seems that in a system working correctly, the cams start their turn and don't engage the brakes until they have traveled at least 50% of their range.
Thank you for your patience with my inexperience.
Lee

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I think I'm missing something.
With the Brake Cam Levers upright, the cam itself is parallel to the ground. While in this position, the Hand Brake Lever is fully forward. When I pull on the Hand Brake Lever, it has very little travel. It will not even get to verticle/neutral. When I mounted the rear wheels, the drum was very tight against the pads. It seems that in a system working correctly, the cams start their turn and don't engage the brakes until they have traveled at least 50% of their range.
Thank you for your patience with my inexperience.
Lee

Read my post just above yours. You most likely have the cams swapped right for left. They are not the same. There is a right hand cam and a left hand cam.

[DanTreace]

Lee

Something is amiss. Could be your cams are riveted to the lever shafts wrong, if you restored with new.

These levers and cams are Left and Right, have to be that way.

Here is the right housing, with cam lever rearward. Relaxed brake shoe.

Now the brake is applied, pulling the cam lever about vertical. Brake shoe expand and locking hub drum.

Relaxed, emergency brake shoe closed, no expansion of the shoe.

100_1204 (500x333).jpg (105.41 KiB) Viewed 6288 times

[lmitch]

The gentleman that did the body work sent the chassis out for blasting and painting without removing any of the handbrake linkage. So the pictures in my previous post represent how I received the car. No changes have been made to the linkage or cams or cam levers. That is not to say it was somehow not wrong the last time it was running, 50 years ago.

[lmitch]

Should the drums contact the pads with the shoes fully relaxed?

[Scott_Conger]

Should the drums contact the pads with the shoes fully relaxed?

if the shoes are newly lined they may very well drag. Usually on the leading and trailing edges beyond the rivets. That area can be ground or filed down.

If your brake cams and levers do not look exactly like Dan's picture then they are wrong and you have found the source of your frustration and have entered into a new stage of frustration. Welcome to the hobby (and assume everything done before you owned the car was done wrong at some point in it's 95 year life and then copied infinitum).

[lmitch]

Here is a photo of the Cam Lever position when the brake shoes are fully relaxed. The Brake handle is fully forward/2nd gear.
[image][/image]

[Scott_Conger]

that is quite different than

With the Brake Cam Levers upright, the cam itself is parallel to the ground

. Yeah, they're upright (and backward facing as well as several people have mentioned is correct).

Later you asked if the drums should rub when the brake is "off".

You have finally provided the information and photos to make a judgement call: You do not have a brake rod problem.

If you will go back to one of my earlier posts mentioning

So long as the car is held in neutral by the cam on the brake lever and you have somewhat of a neutral even if the lever is forward of vertical, that's fine.

You have a slightly oversize lining on your brake band. Fix that and everything will work.

That was way more difficult than it needed to be...

[Stephen_heatherly]

It may just be the picture, but some of your spokes don't look so hot.

Stephen

[AZTerry]

Hello Lee,

Your comment: "When I mounted the rear wheels, the drum was very tight against the pads." hit home.
12 plus years ago when I put the parking brakes on my speedster I had the exact same problem.
I inspected everything three times and could find nothing wrong.

I pulled the brake cams, set them up in my mill, and milled both sides of the brake cam off.
What sticks in my head is I milled 0.030", but I do not remember if it was 0.015" off each side for a total of 0.030" or
0.030" off each side for a total of 0.060. I did not mill below the round shaft though.
This solved my problem and my parking brakes have worked fantastic ever since.

Terry

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

It may just be the picture, but some of your spokes don't look so hot.

Stephen

I completely agree. Those spokes look very unsafe. The spoke in the 1 o'clock position looks at least a 1/4 rotted away, while the 2 o'clock spoke appears to have a huge gap between it and the felloe.

[Stephen_heatherly]

Now that I'm looking at it on a bigger screen I can better see the spokes. That wheel is dangerous.

Stephen