Bendix cover oil leak
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Topic author - Posts: 215
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:17 pm
- First Name: Terry
- Last Name: Horlick
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Roadster Pickup "Mountain Patrol vehicle" from Los Angeles City Fire Department and a 1912 Model T omnibus restoration project
- Location: Penn Valley, CA
- MTFCA Number: 50510
- Board Member Since: 1999
Bendix cover oil leak
After installing my engine with repairs completed I discovered a good size oil leak from the area of the Bendix cover. I looked around and found the old gasket in my discard pile... I couldn't have installed the cover without a gasket, could I? with a quick glance I could confirm that I used a new gasket from my gasket set purchase.
Hmm, what is going on? I removed the cover and gasket and measured. New gasket is .013" thick. Old gasket is .037" thick. The old gasket is twice as thick as the new one!
I placed the cover itself on a flat plane (sort of... my vice anvil and then the garage floor, I didn't want to get grease on my table saw table) and found that the cover wasn't completely flat. There were some tiny bends in it. So using a flat ended punch. ball peen hammer and vice anvil I worked the flange much flatter.
The next step was to clean the mating surfaces and gaskets with acetone and take the new and old gaskets and past them together with RTV sealant. More RTV on the cover and hogshead and re-install. I won't be starting it up for a while, but it never leaked before the gasket swap so I don't expect it to leak now.
I thought a heads up about the new gaskets might be in order. I suspect I could have gotten away with flattening the cover and using the new gasket without sealant... but I am a sort of belt and suspenders type of guy!
Hmm, what is going on? I removed the cover and gasket and measured. New gasket is .013" thick. Old gasket is .037" thick. The old gasket is twice as thick as the new one!
I placed the cover itself on a flat plane (sort of... my vice anvil and then the garage floor, I didn't want to get grease on my table saw table) and found that the cover wasn't completely flat. There were some tiny bends in it. So using a flat ended punch. ball peen hammer and vice anvil I worked the flange much flatter.
The next step was to clean the mating surfaces and gaskets with acetone and take the new and old gaskets and past them together with RTV sealant. More RTV on the cover and hogshead and re-install. I won't be starting it up for a while, but it never leaked before the gasket swap so I don't expect it to leak now.
I thought a heads up about the new gaskets might be in order. I suspect I could have gotten away with flattening the cover and using the new gasket without sealant... but I am a sort of belt and suspenders type of guy!
Terry Horlick, Penn Valley, CA
1927 Mountain Patrol Vehicle from the Los Angeles City Fire Department (L.A.F.D.)
1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
1927 Mountain Patrol Vehicle from the Los Angeles City Fire Department (L.A.F.D.)
1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
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- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
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Re: Bendix cover oil leak
Terry
That should work, new gasket with a decent gasket cement.
Do place the lock washers on those little machine screws too, you don't want a screw to back out and start the seeps all over again!
Like to add a small metric plain washer to the stack, to seal the gap of the lock washer , and the plain washer fits snug in the flange of the later Bendix covers with the rolled up edge.
That should work, new gasket with a decent gasket cement.
Do place the lock washers on those little machine screws too, you don't want a screw to back out and start the seeps all over again!
Like to add a small metric plain washer to the stack, to seal the gap of the lock washer , and the plain washer fits snug in the flange of the later Bendix covers with the rolled up edge.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
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Re: Bendix cover oil leak
I had the same issue, oil on the garage floor , quite a bad leak even with a new gasket. I used silicone sealant and ptfe (plumbers thread tape) tape on the screw threads as extra back up, no leaks .
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Topic author - Posts: 215
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:17 pm
- First Name: Terry
- Last Name: Horlick
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Roadster Pickup "Mountain Patrol vehicle" from Los Angeles City Fire Department and a 1912 Model T omnibus restoration project
- Location: Penn Valley, CA
- MTFCA Number: 50510
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Bendix cover oil leak
Yikes, I haven't used lock washers on these in.... well ever! I wish I had seen this a few hours ago, I would have put lockers in there, a plain good idea. Access to the Bendix \screws is a bit difficult with the pedals, linkage, Horlick design slider Rocky Mountain interface connection, and brake light switch all vying for precious space there.
I have a set of for Phillips head metric screws I have used on my Bendix cover for many years. They are tight enough that they have never backed off and do require more force in driving than you usually expect from a correct screw.
Dan, it looks to me like you have the order of the washer and lock washer reversed from what would be normal. Lock washer in contact with the screw head to keep it from backing out.
TH
I have a set of for Phillips head metric screws I have used on my Bendix cover for many years. They are tight enough that they have never backed off and do require more force in driving than you usually expect from a correct screw.
Dan, it looks to me like you have the order of the washer and lock washer reversed from what would be normal. Lock washer in contact with the screw head to keep it from backing out.
TH
Terry Horlick, Penn Valley, CA
1927 Mountain Patrol Vehicle from the Los Angeles City Fire Department (L.A.F.D.)
1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
1927 Mountain Patrol Vehicle from the Los Angeles City Fire Department (L.A.F.D.)
1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
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Topic author - Posts: 215
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:17 pm
- First Name: Terry
- Last Name: Horlick
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- MTFCA Number: 50510
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Bendix cover oil leak
Dan,
You mentioned a later type of cover with a rolled edge... my car is from 3/1927. I am not sure it has the original Bendix cover, but it probably does. My cover has a rolled edge, however there is an area where the rolled edge has split and torn away, about 1/2" worth.
The only reason to add a rolled edge is to strengthen the flange so it does not bend as easily. This suggests strongly that if the first ones had a flat flange and that there was probably a large number of them developing leaks over time. One would expect the design change to make it harder for a cover to distort and leak.
Also you mention that the washer fits up snug in the rolled up flange area. If you are worried about oil leaking out through the lock washer split what do you think of the edge of the Bendix flange which has all 4 screw holes slotted out through the rolled edge? In fact each screw hole has 180 degrees of the hole blown out, no washer or lock washer will ever seal that... if oil gets past the threads!
TH [/size]
You mentioned a later type of cover with a rolled edge... my car is from 3/1927. I am not sure it has the original Bendix cover, but it probably does. My cover has a rolled edge, however there is an area where the rolled edge has split and torn away, about 1/2" worth.
The only reason to add a rolled edge is to strengthen the flange so it does not bend as easily. This suggests strongly that if the first ones had a flat flange and that there was probably a large number of them developing leaks over time. One would expect the design change to make it harder for a cover to distort and leak.
Also you mention that the washer fits up snug in the rolled up flange area. If you are worried about oil leaking out through the lock washer split what do you think of the edge of the Bendix flange which has all 4 screw holes slotted out through the rolled edge? In fact each screw hole has 180 degrees of the hole blown out, no washer or lock washer will ever seal that... if oil gets past the threads!
TH [/size]
Last edited by Thorlick on Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Terry Horlick, Penn Valley, CA
1927 Mountain Patrol Vehicle from the Los Angeles City Fire Department (L.A.F.D.)
1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
1927 Mountain Patrol Vehicle from the Los Angeles City Fire Department (L.A.F.D.)
1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
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Re: Bendix cover oil leak
I prefer the earlier flat edge Bendix covers as the metal is considerably thicker thus preventing the issue you found with yours.
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Re: Bendix cover oil leak
Terry
Yes, that is the change from the flat surface Bendix covers, the rolled edge is strong and better to use.
Lock washers are original equipment! Ford specified.
And yes, my photo is wrong, the lockwasher rides on the Bendix cover screw. Would suspect your metic screw is a compromise that could back off, original type ASME #14 thread screw there is needed IMO.
Lock washers under Bendix cover screws.
Yes, that is the change from the flat surface Bendix covers, the rolled edge is strong and better to use.
Lock washers are original equipment! Ford specified.
And yes, my photo is wrong, the lockwasher rides on the Bendix cover screw. Would suspect your metic screw is a compromise that could back off, original type ASME #14 thread screw there is needed IMO.
Lock washers under Bendix cover screws.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
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Re: Bendix cover oil leak
Lock washers should not have washers under them. The lock washer needs to grab both the bolt and part that it screws into. With the washer in place, would not keep it from turning out.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
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- Posts: 3299
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
- Location: North Central FL
- MTFCA Number: 4838
- MTFCI Number: 115
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- Contact:
Re: Bendix cover oil leak
Mark
Ordinarily that is correct, in this specific application the plain flat washer provides a totally flat surface.
When those small lock washers are twisted by the screw into the Bendix cover slot, that slot is larger than the screw shaft, and have found lock washer to become canted. That makes one side of the lock washer off set in the slot, and won't let the screw seat flush for me.
Anyway, that's my method, no leaks, others may find different solution .
But a leak at the Bendix cover can be an engine wrecker
Ordinarily that is correct, in this specific application the plain flat washer provides a totally flat surface.
When those small lock washers are twisted by the screw into the Bendix cover slot, that slot is larger than the screw shaft, and have found lock washer to become canted. That makes one side of the lock washer off set in the slot, and won't let the screw seat flush for me.
Anyway, that's my method, no leaks, others may find different solution .
But a leak at the Bendix cover can be an engine wrecker
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford