1927 Model T Two Door Sedan Price

[David L]

Thank you for adding me to your list. I have the opportunity to purchase a 1927 Model T sedan. The steel body is in excellent shape for it's age & I believe the engine will crank with a battery. It has been sitting since 1990, so the owner doesn't want to try to start until gas is changed, etc. The interior is not in too bad shape, but I will probably restore it completely. My question to all you experts is this: Is $5000 too much for this "non-running" car? Also, approximate cost to refurbish back to original. I know very little about these cars. Thanks for any input!!

[Humblej]

Post some pictures. Price depends on condition, completeness, correctness, options, and title or none.

Cost to do a restoration is impossible to say, amateur or professional, complete engine and trans overhaul or just freshen up.
A beautiful award winning 26-27 touring ready to go needs nothing has no buyers at $16,000.

I think in this day and age 5k for a non running t with no pictures or any other information to go on is too high. If it just needs some cleaning up and fresh gas, has a title with matching numbers, wire wheels, bumpers, and a ruxtell, 5k is way too low.

[Russ T Fender]

A few years ago I bought a '22 Centerdoor that had not run since 1960. I paid $3,500 for it and the previous owner had just put 5 new tires on it hoping to get it running. It is an original unrestored car with a very good original interior. I got it running in a day and have been driving it ever since. I think $5,000 is a bit much but without pictures it is hard to say.

[John kuehn]

If the T is in pretty good condition overall that’s probably top money since it hasn’t run in awhile. No more than 4000.00 is probably about right but if it’s got some issues such as an original radiator with cooling problems or engine issues that would make it lower. If you do get it for the right price get it running like it is and make it road worthy and drive it awhile.
Some people will buy a fairly decent car, take it apart with the intention to ‘fix it up’ and then find out it might have been to much do. Check out the brakes, transmission linings and tires, maybe clean the gas tank and drive it like it is. You will glad that you did. Pictures will help to see what’s what.

[Steve Jelf]

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG99.html

[David L]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... 703816483/ Here is the vehicle I am looking at. Thanks to all who replied.

[Humblej]

Nice car with desirable options. Pay him what he is asking, clean it up and drive as is. Dont waste your time and money to do a restoration, that car is very presentable. Go get it TODAY, dont walk, run. Dont put down a small deposit and wait a couple of weeks to pick it up, show up with the cash and a trailer ASAP. Buy it and enjoy it. Nice find, good luck.

[Russ T Fender]

After seeing pictures of the car and assuming the engine is free and has compression I don't think the asking price is out of line. I agree that cleaning it up and running it as is makes the most sense and will get you the best bang for the buck. I did that with a non Ford that I ran as found for over 30 years before I gave it a well earned rebuild. Just do what it needs to make it safe and reasonably reliable.

[John kuehn]

Buy the car, and get it running as it is. Clean it up. It’s in pretty good shape to begin with and that’s a plus. What’s good about it is that it’s been stored or kept pretty much out of the weather.
First thing I would do is to change the oil and drain the gas as best as you can. Then try to start it. That car would make a good driver with some maintenance I would bet.
If it were on a trailer at Chickasha for sale it would go pretty quick.

After looking at the pics again try to buy it before some hot rodder or custom car builder buys it and ruins a good original car! It’s a good one.

[John Codman]

A couple of comments based on experience - Have a contingency budget of at least $1,000. More is better. I have yet to see my first T for sale that wasn't a fresh total restoration from a reputable shop, that didn't need something. Some things won't show up for a while. If the radiator isn't recent, I would allow somewhere north of $800 for a Berg's flat-tube radiator. In the case of my '27, the steering was a bit sloppy (to put it mildly). I assumed that a Pitman arm and a couple of spring-loaded tie rod end caps would fix things, but I eventually wound up replacing the steering column because the steering shaft was very badly worn where it passes through the frame bracket. Also a little off topic, but before you drive it on the highway, do a complete safety inspection. Check everything that could possibly cause injury or further damage if it fails. You are dealing with a 92 year-old vehicle that was designed to replace a horse and wagon. I found that a previous owner had cotter-pinned the nuts on the wishbone socket, one stud of which had disappeared, and the other was loose. This is a major no-no. The nuts must be safety-wired.
It does look like a nice car though. Probably worth the money.

[KeithG]

I agree with the posts above but have 2 strong recommendations. Once you get it running and before driving it too much, since it has been sitting for 30 years, you will need new tires and probably tubes and rim liners. The old tires will be all but rotten and safety comes first. Next comes safety glass. Check it and replace it if it hasn't been done already.

[David L]

Thanks to all who replied. I am still up in the air as to purchase or not. It's very difficult to determine the shape it is in mechanically until I get it started. I will say the owner turned the crank for me & it sounded like good compression (as far as I can tell), but taking a chance on trans & motor both for $5500?? I will keep the forum posted as to my decision. Thanks again everybody!!

[Scott_Conger]

It's 93 years old and been worked on for 92 years by people who in large part had no idea what they were doing. You could buy a fully restored T for '$15+K and have no more certainty that the the restoration shop that did the work knew anything more about Ts than the previous people over 92 years.

These cars have poured babit bearings which can be scraped and shimmed back to operable condition in many if not most circumstances. Frankly, it is a rare T that will not start and run well enough to give the new owner a lot of pleasure for at least a few years. Additionally, if you hang out here long enough, you will encounter people who decide to send their engine/transmission out for overhaul "because it probably needed it", but not because it actually did. I think that thinking was in part supported by a historic stock market bull market for a bunch of retirees, and I'm pretty sure that kind of thinking will surface a lot less in the forseeable future.

Myself, I would not be at all worried about a car that looked like that at that price, and had compression (and maybe still, if it DIDN'T have compression as that is far from a insurmountable situation).

[Humblej]

David, I am sorry to see your hesitation to buying this car. If you follow the mtfca forum very long you will discover that 20 people will have 20 different opinions on any given topic, well, until now. There is not a single opinion here that this car is a questionable deal or is over priced. For someone as yourself with no model t experience it must seem like a big risk and a potential can of worms. But you asked the experts, who unanimously agree, this is a low risk great deal, one you will probably never see again.

If the engine turns over it will run. You will need help from an experienced model t guy and should join a local club for help to get it running, and to learn how to drive with 3 pedals, a spark advance lever, no foot accelerator, and a carb mixture knob, that are all foreign to you and illogical. But in a short time you will not only have learned how to start and drive a model t, you will be taking up connecting rod bearings, timing valves, and rebuilding rear axles...you will be a model t expert, leaping tall buildings in a single bound, faster than a speeding bullet, stronger than a freight train.

If you ever wanted to own a model t, this is the right one at a bargin price. Go for it or stop learking around here dreaming, take up golf or fly fishing.

Good luck and let us know if you buy it.

[DLodge]

... if you hang out here long enough, you will encounter people who decide to send their engine/transmission out for overhaul "because it probably needed it", but not because it actually did.

Takes me back to something I learned early in the old car hobby, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

[Norman Kling]

If the car you are looking at has the wire spoke original Model T wheels and hubs, and they are straight and the bearings run smoothly, they alone are worth about $1,000. They are also hard to find if you want to replace them because many drivers of older models and speedsters also desire them and they were only made for 26-27 cars and not all of those cars came with them.

Also does the car have a Ruckstell or other auxiliary transmission? If so add another $1000 if it is in good condition. If it has Rocky Mountain brakes add another $1000. So your price is good even though the engine might need some work.
Norm

[John kuehn]

In the Model T world today more than a few would love to have a car that’s pretty much original that’s in pretty good shape, solid and hasn’t been messed with besides not being hot rodded.
This is one of those cars.
Use to be that finding a nice restorable car the first thing to do was to take it all apart and make everything a new as possible, add a high dollar paint job for a pristine car.
For some that may be the way to go but nowadays not necessarily so.
You can spend 10.000 or more to make it nicer but a lot less to have an good original that’s a nice looking car that really is the real deal.

[StanHowe]

It wouldn't be worth that to me.
But then, Montana is probably a different market than Texas. There are still a lot of cars that leave Montana because they are rust free for the most part.

So the good is it appears to be all original. The bad is it is all original. Which means it has babbitt washers in the rear end, the upholstery will crack and fall apart as soon as you sit on the seats. Whoever did the engine painted it blue umpteen years ago so it probably was not rebuilt, it was "overhauled" which means they took up the rods when they had the head off to put rings in it and grind the valves.

It needs bands for sure, it needs tires for sure, it will need a timer and the coils rebuilt and a carb rebuild and etc., there is no aux transmission like a Ruckstell or Warford or at least you can't see any lever in the photos. It will need a radiator. They all do if the one on it is an original. It needs a battery and cables and a starter rebuild and I doubt the generator works. Even if it does it will need a rebuild.

ETC.

What about a Title????

You can give him $5,000 for it, put $5,000 in it and end up with a $6000 car you will have trouble selling. It is the least desirable and hardest to sell of all the late body styles.

It is, of course, your deal. I've been buying and selling Model T's and a lot of other cars since my first one in 1954. The market is slow and getting slower on these less desirable cars in my opinion.

IF you want a tudor and IF you are not going to get discouraged by having to put a bunch of time, work, money and time, work and money in it before you get it running and driving, I would show up with $3000 cash in my pocket. I would offer him $2500 for it, if he ran me off and was all bent out of shape I'd just leave and take my money and deal with somebody reasonable. If he says, "Let me think about it, I'd tell him the offer is good right now but there are others for sale and I want to get something I can drive this summer so I'm not going to wait long. (He's going to use your offer to leverage whoever else comes and tell them that he already has a $3000 offer)

I'd leave him my phone number and be about half disappointed and about half glad he turned it down. I'd go look for another, better, similar one and be smarter than I was when I got there.

If he called and said he would take the offer or maybe said he would take $3000 for it, I'd hook up my trailer and go get it. And wonder what I got myself in to.

Your mileage may vary, etc., etc.

[StanHowe]

I should also say that under that old upholstery there is a body that has virtually no wood except for the top. That is a real plus to me.

[Marshall V. Daut]

Good points made so far. Stan's right about the humble Tudor (especially the heavier '26-27 models) being the unwanted red-headed stepchild in the Model T family. DEATH to sell and a potential money pit if you need to replace the interior with an authentic one = $2000. They were popular in the day among middle class families because they were cheap and could haul the entire family around town. There were a lot of them made and because they tended to be owned by responsible families instead of young speed punks, a great many have survived, and in good condition. The all-steel body helped there, too. The only wood inside is for tacking upholstery panels in place and for the top material. Like a Model A Tudor Sedan, the seats are uncomfortable in my opinion and one is constantly shifting his body weight while driving to keep from falling out of them. Seat belts would be beneficial. If you buy this car, you had better REALLY want a plain-Jane Tudor Sedan. Other than the Coupe, '26-27 closed car Model T's are at the bottom of the preference scale and hence their values reflect this. It's easy and usually inexpensive to acquire one, but very difficult to sell if you need to do so or for your heirs down the road.
Having said all that, there is at least one very good thing in this particular car's case: it has wire wheels and hubs. That's worth about $2000 in my opinion, meaning if you have to pay $5000 for this car, you are really getting it for $3000. Yes, if it had wooden spoke wheels that should be subtracted from the difference. But often those wheels need to be re-spoked because they are unsafe = $700+. The wire wheels will definitely help if the car needs to be sold someday. Wire wheels are BIG plus for this car IMHO.
My first Model T was a 1926 Coupe, so I have a soft spot in my heart for '26-27 models. I did own a Tudor in the late 1970's that I bought to resell, but it took MONTHS to do so, even at a low price of $1350 in the Phoenix area with LOTS of antique car buffs. Weigh all of these considerations before leaping into this car's purchase.
Marshall

[StanHowe]

Just did it again. Spent ten minutes typing a response, hit post without thinking to make a copy, the MTFCA site is down or has permanently moved or what ever that message is.

Condensed version. Not to argue with Marshall but if wire wheels and hubs are worth two grand I've got 4 or 5 sets.

He's right. Those front seats are not made for guys my size.

I bought my 27 coupe for $2500 with NOS Allstate whitewalls on wire wheels.

I'm done.

[DanTreace]

Those front seats are not made for guys my size.

So true, about 8 years ago got this nice running '27 Tudor, poor upholstery but P.O. put sewn covers over them. Strong engine, new radiator, newly coated and cleaned gas tank, decent tires and wood wheels. Bit of rust at the front cowl that all Tudors suffer from.

However, the spouse-in-chief didn't care for that passenger front folding bucket, that thing is worthless for riding on.

The fixed driver's bucket isn't sized to current bucket seat standards either

Sold it and got my money out. ($3800).