unconventional transmission brake bands

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dhosh
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unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by dhosh » Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:51 pm

Not that I plan on trying anything different .... this is a question out of curiosity, as I wasn't able to search the old forums to appease myself ...

I would imagine Ford tested lots of materials for the transmission bands. I wonder how leather would work as a band material? I would think it might be a little squishy, or slimy, and possibly disintegrate, being bathed in oil. I know Chevy used leather as a clutch material ...

Please ... no dart throwing. This is just curiosity. I am not out to re-invent what has worked for 100 years. I run cotton bands. :-)
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Mark Gregush
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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:21 pm

People have used leather for temporary replacement linings, but as you said, being in a hot oily environment they would not hold up. The Chevrolet leather faced cone clutch was in a somewhat dry environment.
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Wayne Sheldon
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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:24 pm

A cone clutch in a flywheel out in the open would also run about fifty degrees cooler than the inside of a hot running motor. Oil soaked under pressure and friction (as in a model T transmission) would turn leather to mush in a short time. A good cone clutch with an occasional squirt of neatsfoot oil can last for tens of thousands of miles if not abused too much.

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ABoer
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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by ABoer » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:10 am

Some weeks ago , I opened a 1911 engine and found these Trans. brake bands .
What do you think about these ????
Toon
IMG_1057.JPG
IMG_1058.JPG


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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Joe Bell » Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:59 am

Toon,
I have tore engines down with them in it, the brass that is imbedded in the material comes off and goes into the babbitt and then you would know what that looks like. They do work and hold well but pre engine failure from it.

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Henry K. Lee
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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Henry K. Lee » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:18 am

My dear ole Dad mentioned using a tight weave cotton belt material such as was used in the military. Sounds logical. Just Sayin’

Hank

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Jim_PTC_GA
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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Jim_PTC_GA » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:40 am

Comment to Anthonie,
I opened a 27 transmission and found a similar band to the one you posted a photo of. I also found the transmission full of the brass looking material woven in the band. I never found a manufacturer who made them but the ones on this T looked almost new when I took them out. I didn't put them back in because of the material coming off them and settling in the transmission.
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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Mark Gregush » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:07 am

They look to be brake band material sold by some company's. For applications such as car/truck etc service brakes or brakes used in power transmission boxes for industrial applications. The brass wire help keep the lining cool dissipating the heat.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by ABoer » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:15 am

Joe & Jim ; Thanks for your reaction , that is something to THINK about !!!!!
Toon .
BTW. Joe , we have two model T's comming from OHIO


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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Rich Bingham » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:01 am

I thought this was about using leather for band lining ?
“Turn to mush”. ? I don’t think so. Think of frying bacon ! Heat and oil would eventually turn leather brittle and glazed, likely losing its ability to grab the drums efficiently. Times past, there have been posts about using harness leather (presumably with some success) - emergency repairs and depression era stories, I’d guess.

FWIW, “leather” covers a wide range of very different materials processed from the hides of animals. What kind of “leather” ? Bull shoulder ? Steer hide ? Top grain ? Skivers ? Belly leather ? Oak tanned ? Chrome tanned ? Vegetable tanned ? Latigo leather ? And that’s just “cow” hide. Horse hide and that of other species (goat, deer, elk) have very different properties and characteristics.
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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Les Schubert » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:21 am

I’m sure I’ve seen pictures of cork inserts in T bands. Having just finished making a couple of cork inserted clutch discs I’m curious!


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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Les Schubert » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:25 am

Just for the heck of it, I might try making a cork inserted conventional T clutch. It would probably get 3 or 4 corked discs (each one would be about 1/4” thick when finished)


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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Les Schubert » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:26 am

Just for the heck of it, I might try making a cork inserted conventional T clutch. It would probably get 3 or 4 corked discs (each one would be about 1/4” thick when finished).
I can get the discs laser cut and I now have all the tools and knowledge for finishing it!


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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by jiminbartow » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:22 pm

Regarding using military web belts for band lining... If you are considering this, be sure you use the old all-cotton web belts. When I first joined the Marines in 1972, we were issued cotton web belts. Around 1974, nylon web belts were issued, as they were easier to clean. The newer web belts, made of woven nylon and are not suitable to use as band linings as they will not absorb the cooling oil and will melt, causing a terrible mess. I have used the same set of Guinn’s wood bands for 10 years and would not use anything else. Jim Patrick


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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by SurfCityGene » Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:32 pm

You can use leather for a rod bearing replacement to get back home if your traveling back to Canada from the States. :lol:
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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Rich Bingham » Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:58 pm

Here you go Les ! NOS :lol:

I would have used them but they smell funky and I think have damp rot. There were several brands marketed with cork inserts “back in the day”.
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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Les Schubert » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:53 pm

Thank you Rich for the posting. I was sure I had seen a picture of them!


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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Joe Bell » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:15 pm

Rich, Les, I have pulled many down with the cork in them, always wondered how the held up? What ever was between the cork crumbled but the cork was still good.


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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Les Schubert » Fri May 01, 2020 11:13 am

Potentially cork a Scandinavia band. It would be a interesting experiment. Another thought is to take a strip of Teflon and cork insert that


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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Fri May 01, 2020 12:36 pm

An "old timer" told me once that he used to punch holes in Scandinavia and glue in his own cork discs, which he cut from wine bottle corks. He said they lasted "forever".


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Re: unconventional transmission brake bands

Post by Rich Bingham » Fri May 01, 2020 1:01 pm

Like Joe, I’ve found old cork insert linings in my parts stash. They didn’t look very much worn at all.
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