I dodged a bullet.

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Allan
Posts: 5205
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

I dodged a bullet.

Post by Allan » Mon May 04, 2020 5:19 am

I drove Henrietta out to the farm a couple of days ago. Barry the black labrador loves to get a good run out there. When leaving the workshop and going back to the farmhouse, I have a couple of miles to travel on good formed but unsealed roads. Three quarters of the way through a little more than a right hand turn, she darted left and I came to rest on the verge, having slid right across the road. Fortunately it was one of those turns which has one wondering if it is a low gear turn or low rev. high gear turn. When I got out both front wheels were pointing outwards as far as they could. I had lost the tie rod end bolt at the adjustable end! Three of us could find no trace of it anywhere on the road, so we ratted one from an old beater back in the shed and I was able to get mobile again, no damage done, except to my reputation perhaps.

When I rebuilt the front end to get her back on the road after 62 years, I well remember bending just one leg of the split pin in the tie rod end bolt, because there was a chance I would have to go back to it for subsequent adjustments of the toe in. I can't remember having to make such adjustments so it may have been like that for a couple of years, one national rally and numerous trips closer to home. Any way, I had to have lost the split pin for the nut to come off. More disturbing was there was no pin in the tie rod end ball either! Have I learned a lesson? You bet I have. The worrying thing is I thought I had already learned that lesson long ago.

Allan from down under.

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Oldav8tor
Posts: 1930
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First Name: Tim
Last Name: Juhl
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1917 Touring
Location: Thumb of Michigan
MTFCA Number: 50297
MTFCI Number: 24810
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: I dodged a bullet.

Post by Oldav8tor » Mon May 04, 2020 10:26 am

Lucky guy! I guess there is a reason Henry used all those cotter pins.

I was on a tour last year where a fellow had the nut holding the pitman arm fall off, followed by the arm itself. The vehicle became unsteerable and went off the side of the road into a wide, deep ditch. Fortunately it landed upright and when I saw it the top of the car's roof was below the level of the road! I suspect it was quite a ride but no-one was injured. The car was back on the road late that day. It certainly made a believer out of me!
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor


R.V.Anderson
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Re: I dodged a bullet.

Post by R.V.Anderson » Mon May 04, 2020 10:54 am

Good news indeed that no one was injured, and no significant damage to the T!!

I have learned some things abut cotter pins to which I had never given a thought previously. Probably the most significant is that cotter pins, no matter how they are installed and locked, will not prevent the loosening and subsequent loss of the nut unless the nut is properly tight and the pin completely fills the slot in the nut and the hole in the bolt. If it doesn't, the nut WILL loosen. Depending on the individual application, the nut could loosen to the point of movement and eventually end up severing the pin. I'm not saying that this was necessarily the case in your situation, but the front axle assembly is a prime spot for that scenario. What I do now is to use 7/64" stainless cotter pins, which fill the holes much better than the 3/32" commonly used. I spread the ends of the pin only out to about a 45 degree angle, and never re-use pins once they have been removed, except for the 1/16" pins used on the carb rods.


Norman Kling
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Re: I dodged a bullet.

Post by Norman Kling » Mon May 04, 2020 11:08 am

It is very good to check the nuts, cotter pins and safety wires each time you lube and change the oil, and before a long tour. And when you work on the car, go back and check everything again before you drive it.
Sometimes we get either so tired, we just go in and clean up and go to bed. Other times we are so eager to try out the car after working on it, that we forget some detail. It is a small detail to delete a cotter pin but when it happens, it can lead to a big disaster.
Norm


Altair
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Re: I dodged a bullet.

Post by Altair » Mon May 04, 2020 1:35 pm

I have found loose nuts with cotter pins, it is a hassle to remove the pins to recheck the torque so they don't get retightened and often get left until they rattle apart.


RxGPoblet
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Re: I dodged a bullet.

Post by RxGPoblet » Mon May 04, 2020 4:46 pm

I try to remember to put loctite on everything. Even if it has a cotter pin. Reason is ....... see above. A good backup if nothing else


Jeff Hood
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Re: I dodged a bullet.

Post by Jeff Hood » Mon May 04, 2020 9:26 pm

Don't use CHEAP JUNK cotter pins sold in CHEAP JUNK stores in plastic assortment boxes!!!! I have had some of these break when I bent them over, and almost all of them will break when you straighten them to remove them. A GOOD cotter pin will be able to be bent and straightened several times although you should always consider them a one-time application. Still, a side-of-the-road repair might necessitate a reuse. You will get away with this with a quality pin, but not a CHEAP JUNK PLASTIC ASSORTMENT BOX pin! A small box of just one size of quality pins will probably cost you twice as much as that whole assortment, but your life is worth it.


Topic author
Allan
Posts: 5205
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: I dodged a bullet.

Post by Allan » Tue May 05, 2020 3:17 am

I have hoarded old stock, non plated pins for years. They have nicely rounded eyes as they should be, and being unplated, they rust just like they need to on Henrietta. We used a piece of wire from a fence adjacent to the site. Does that piece of wire have to stay there, as a small part in the history of the car?

Allan from down under.

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Peter Martin
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Re: I dodged a bullet.

Post by Peter Martin » Tue May 05, 2020 3:45 am

this is the very reason I oil all of the oiler points on both the front and rear end before I drive the cars every time. One benefit is that you can have a quick safety check to make sure nothing is loose or missing and another is if you keep it up, your rebuild intervals are few and far between. My 1912 was finished being restored in 1987 and has done thousands of miles since, the front end is as tight as the day it was finished.

Peter
Forum member since ?? :shock:

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Mark Gregush
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Re: I dodged a bullet.

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue May 05, 2020 1:55 pm

What condition are the threads in the tie rod ends (axle for king pins for that matter)? The nuts in both locations acts like a jamb nut and cotter/split pin is there for safety. To lose the tie rod bolt, it would have had to have lost the nut then un-threaded from the end. That's a lot of un-threading esp being the fine threads that they are! Might want to check that out.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup

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