Speedster project update, pulled pan found oil leak problem ..

[dobro1956]

As some of you know I had a major oil leak at the passenger pan arm when I started the speedsters engine. I also had a blown head gasket. I have addressed the blown head gasket problem and moved on to the oil leak.

here is a link to the previous discussion as to the head gasket
https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12267

I have now removed the crankcase and I found the oil leak problem. There is a depression at the pan arms on both sides. If you use a straight edge The pan is straight just at a narrow edge near the inside of the lip. I have shown in the following pictures a area marked with blue Xs. That area is level with the rest of the pan, but sinks down into the area marked with the red Xs. There is not enough sealing area at the narrow strip marked with the blue Xs. But it explains why I missed the depression when straightning the pan on my pan jig. The narrow strip would be touching the pan and give a false reading when I tested it with the feeler gauge and shining a light inside the pan. That area is going to be almost impossible to straighten with the pan arm in the way. My pan has been modified for outside oil lines, and also has a small dam inside to slightly raise the oil level. So going to another pan is not a easy fix. Other than the two small depressions my pan is about as good as a person can find.

So I have a plan, let me know what everyone thinks......

I plan on cleaning the pan up very well, put it back on the pan jig and straighten anything that may have been bent during the install and remove process. Things like bolt holes being bent is about all I see that may need fixed. After it is back as straight as I can get it on the pan jig. I plan on sitting the pan in my roll around engine stand to make it easy to work on. Then I plan on installing both sides of the hogs head gaskets to the bare oil pan sitting on the engine stand. I will use the black Permatex right stuff (ultra black) as my sealer. I will use plenty of it. At the dip I will use too much, so it squeezes out both sides of the gasket. I will only use the sealer on the oil pan side of the gasket, making sure the top side is clean. Then I will set the hogs head in place and install all of the bolts and nuts. Then I will lightly snug the bolts down using only a screwdriver style nut driver, being very careful to pull it down slowly and evenly. . Using the hogs head this way should act as a press to push the gasket into a level and straight fit. After The sealer dries, I will remove the hogs head and using a razor knife clean up all the excess squeezed out sealer from the inside of the pan. Then I can proceed to installing the pan and hogs head to the engine in a normal way. Im hoping that this procedure will give me a good seal at the pan arms.
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Any input will be appreciated....

The pictures below were taken before I scraped and cleaned the depression area, and tested it with a straight edge. I forgot to take pictures of the cleaned up area, but these photos show the problem better than a cleaned up area would.....

[Allan]

Donnie, I would be inclined to tin the area thoroughly and add solder to fill the low spots. The heat used is not likely to cause any distortion problems. Once you have the area built up, a body file will make short work of getting it flat again. This way, you will only ever have to treat subsequent work in the usual manner. without the special steps you propose.

Others may have different ideas.
Allan from down under.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Just a thought. The pan arms angle out and over to go around the bolting surfaces. You should be able to stick a large screwdriver or steel rod in there (I know I have used a screwdriver to clean the crud out of that space). If you were to carefully heat the low area, it should expand down (guided by the already stretched area), then carefully pry it up while still cherry red (do NOT raise it too much!). As it cools, it should shrink itself nearly flat, hopefully without warping the pan much. Definitely, recheck the pan for straight on your jig.

Otherwise, your plan should probably work okay, but could have an increased chance of gasket failure due to the flywheel slinging oil right at it.

[Scott_Conger]

Donnie

that sounds like a lot of work.

Why not just use Ultra Black on both sides of the gasket paper with a little extra at the pan and be done with it?

You had a slight depression and since you didn't expect it, too little sealant. I'd be really annoyed to have to redo it, but wouldn't overthink the fix, either.

There is zero need to remove excess. The stuff is RTV. It's not going anywhere like silicone crap can and will.

[dobro1956]

Allan, I like the fix of adding solder, but I'm hesitant to add any heat that may burn the Glycol paint on the inside of the pan. Trying to "touch up" any "burnt" paint may cause failure of the Glycol. The solder fix may be a good way to address the problem on clean pans in the process of being restored. I am going to start paying closer attention to this area on future pan restorations. It may be more common than we think. Mine was just bad enough to cause a catastrophic failure of the gasket.
Scott, I agree the ultra black will probably stay put even if it squeezes out quiet a bit. That stuff stays put . Im just thinking doing it my way, and being able to remove the hogs head to inspect the gasket will give me a little peace of mind that the gasket sealed.

Next step is to clean up and prep the pan for re-install, I hate clean-up work.

Thanks for the comments

[Dan McEachern]

I really like the solder idea versus the RTV. The glyptol may get a little toasted, but why not just sand off any questionable areas and recoat it after the solder is applied? If you don't want to solder it, I would prefer to use JB weld and file it flat rather than rely on the RTV.

[Mark Gregush]

You might use the suggested sealer but, don't bolt everything up tight. Bolt everything up not fully tightened, let sealer set overnight then bring up snug.

[dobro1956]

Mark, I do plan on just barely tightening the bolts. Just enough to make sure the gasket is pressed flat.

Ultra black is a very tenacious sealer. It is very hard to remove when stuck to a clean surface. I usually have to cut it off with a razor knife. So I hope it will work with my new procedure.

[tdump]

I was thinking of this issue while working on my T this evening and I would consider something like JB weld or Liquid steel, rubbed on the area that is to low and then file and sand it flat. Then 10 years from now,if you pull it apart again,the jb weld will be there to reinstall the hog head without going thru a "procedure " to reinstall it.
And yes, Ultra black is some tough stuff, there is 3 tubes so far from Walmart on my T and it aint quite done yet!.