1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

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Rob
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1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by Rob » Sat May 30, 2020 10:31 am

Last Thursday Trent Boggess presented his research into the first Model T, or T prototype, including the two lever, three pedal car. That’s right, two lever, three pedal. Trent has graciously allowed us to post his presentation. While the entire recording lasts two hours, the first hour consists primarily of Trent’s presentation about the first Model T.

Link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cqa43khstjbll ... s.mp4?dl=0

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Last edited by Rob on Sat May 30, 2020 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bob McDaniel
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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by Bob McDaniel » Sat May 30, 2020 12:30 pm

I have not watched it yet but noticed right away the third picture with the wrong caption. It says 3 lever 2 pedal but shows 3 pedals and 2 levers in the picture. Not wanting to be picky but thought maybe he could fix this before it gets out there. Typo's happen.
Give an old car guy a barn and he won't throw anything away.

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Rob
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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by Rob » Sat May 30, 2020 12:39 pm

Bob,
I think he put that in to see if you were paying attention. You get a gold star. 8-)

Trent had this slideshow prepared, and it is obviously a typo. I suspect he’ll read this and see it.


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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by KeithG » Sat May 30, 2020 12:41 pm

I watched this and would like to thank Trent for his scholarly and thorough presentation, and to Rob for organizing and hosting it.

Thanks, guys, it was very interesting and informative.

Keith
'14 Touring, '26 Roadster Pickup, '27 Fordor, '25 TT C Cab with Express Bed.
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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by TonyB » Sat May 30, 2020 12:47 pm

That was a great presentation, thanks to Trent for his research and Rob for making it available.
I remember Bruce McCalley making a presentation about the prototype and specifically the angle bracket at the front corner. He casually mentioned it was modified in production to include the lengthening down the front cross member. But as Ford didn’t return from his trip until 1 Oct and the first car shipped about the same day, could it include the change. Trent seems to have solved that particular puzzle. I suppose he looked at the picture of #1 under a magnifying glass and seen the original short bracket.
It amazes me that so many of these early prototype parts are still around, fancy the experimental first detachable head still being around. Amazing.
Thanks again.
Tony Bowker
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1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.


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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by bud delong » Sat May 30, 2020 1:12 pm

Thank"s to everyone for this and i really enjoyed it!! I do not know if it was the end but Trent was about to tell of his favorite Model T book and was gone?? Bud. :D

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Bob McDaniel
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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by Bob McDaniel » Sat May 30, 2020 1:40 pm

I just finished watching it and WOW that was great! Glad you able to share this with the rest of us and hope to see more.
Give an old car guy a barn and he won't throw anything away.


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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by KeithG » Sat May 30, 2020 2:41 pm

Bud, The favorite Model T book that Trent referred to is: Tin Lizzie The story of the fabulous Model T Ford by Philip Van Doren Stern
Trent referred to several interesting "facts" about the Model T's that are in this book, but regretfully, he said, the sources for these "facts" are not given. As a scholar, Trent said he would really like to know where these "facts" came from.

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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by bud delong » Sat May 30, 2020 5:17 pm

Keith,I started reading Tin Lizzie about 1960,and while not perfect it told of the [reminices] and where to find them.Bud. :D


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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by Aussie16 » Sat May 30, 2020 8:18 pm

What a wonderful presentation. Thanks for sharing it. Also great to put some faces to the names of some of the great historians and custodians of early Ford history and vehicles. I am very fortunate to live nearby a very original 2 lever T. When it is parked next to the 1910 that lives in the same garage, the differences between the 2 cars is incredible. They are like 2 different models. So many off the parts are similar but different. The early production T's were certainly an evolving vehicle.


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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by Michael Paul » Sat May 30, 2020 10:32 pm

Wow that was great! One could only dream about finding one if those early cars, imagine finding it in a
basement or barn, covered with canvas and a two inch layer of dust.



Thanks again, that was very educational!
Mike


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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sun May 31, 2020 1:31 pm

Very nice Rob. Thanks for posting this, I hated missing it. :)


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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by Trentb » Sun May 31, 2020 9:15 pm

Jerry,

I wish you could have been there. After all, part of this story is yours. I would love to hear about how you got the removable cylinder head motor to Piquette.

Respectfully Submitted,

Trent Boggess


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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:26 pm

Trentb wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:15 pm
Jerry,

I wish you could have been there. After all, part of this story is yours. I would love to hear about how you got the removable cylinder head motor to Piquette.

Respectfully Submitted,

Trent Boggess

Trent,

That is a pretty interesting story actually! Too much for my fumbling fingers to type. I'll email you my phone number and you can give me a call if you wish. Best,

Jerry Van

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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by mngreen » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:34 pm

Question for Trent:

On the prototype with 3 pedals and 2 levers, was the middle pedal and the reverse lever linked to accomplish the same reverse gear operation? Or something else? I thought I heard something said about a 2nd gear? If so was there 4 bands in that prototype transmission? :roll:

Thanks for the historical sleuthing! :geek:
1924 Model T Touring
1931 Model A Cabriolet (68B)


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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by Trentb » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:23 pm

The Prototype Control system did not use a reverse lever, like the later two-lever, two-pedal cars did. Instead, the two levers on the prototypes were for 1) the rear hub brake (just like all the production Model Ts did), and 2) for neutral/high gear. Pulling this second lever back put the car in neutral (just like holding the clutch pedal half way down on a 1-lever 3-pedal car). The lever would have to be in the neutral position in order to operate the low speed, reverse and brake pedals. Once the car was moving forward fast enough (using the low speed pedal), the driver would let up on the low speed pedal, and push the second lever forward to engage high gear.

Now to answer your question about the reverse or center pedal, with the second lever pulled back, the driver would simply push down on the reverse pedal to make the car back up. Letting up on the reverse pedal simply put the car back in neutral. The advantage to this system was that you didn’t have to hold the low speed pedal halfway down (in neutral) while trying to press down on the reverse lever with the other foot.

The description of how this control system worked was described in the March 1908 Advance Catalog.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess


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Re: 1907 - 1909 Ford Model T prototype, courtesy of Trent B.

Post by D Stroud » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:59 am

That is VERY interesting Trent. I remember reading about that two lever-three pedal illustration probably around thirty years ago or so somewhere, probably in one of the club magazines. The thought back then was that since it was an artist's illustration it was a mistake. Sure makes sense now. Thanks for all of your time and research. Dave
1925 mostly original coupe.

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