Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

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DHort
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Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by DHort » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:19 am

Eventually I will need to remove the hogshead, but does anyone have any methods to slow down the leaks? It also leaks thru the universal cap, but not as much as it does thru the pedals.

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ivaldes1
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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by ivaldes1 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:20 am

There is the infamous 'o-ring trick' but I could not get it to work.


Allan
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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by Allan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:04 am

The real answer is new pedal shafts, bronze bushes in the hogshead, especially in alloy covers, and lipped oil seals on the outer sides of the cover. Anything else is asking for divine intervention.

Allan from down under.

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Charlie B in N.J.
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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:16 am

Here's a "quickie" that might do the trick as a temp fix. Clean the hogshead area around the shaft really good. A carb cleaner type spray works great for this. Apply a thin film of oil to the shaft. Don't get any on the hogs head. Use a good grade silicone and apply it to the hogshead & the shaft. It should not stick to the shaft because of the oil.A sizeable ammount is needed. When it sets the shaft should move freely with reduced oil leakage. I tried it once and it's quite OK. In fact I never removed it.
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modernbeat
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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by modernbeat » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:03 am

While I haven't got mine together yet, I've got the proper tooling to machine the recesses to add seals to the pedal shafts and starter bushing.

Here's an example of adding seals to the pedals using the National 340849 seal.
https://modeltfordfix.com/how-to-keep-y ... territory/
Jason McDaniel


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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by Dan Hatch » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:57 am

Only way to fix is bushings and seals in housings with new pedal shafts.
Also, put bushing and seal in clutch shaft. Dan


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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by DickC » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:22 pm

If you do any T touring with a group I would not "fix"it unless it is more that a little. The "drip" makes touring easier to to not get lost. Just follow the T tracks!!!


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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by OilyBill » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:38 pm

Dick C hit the nail right on the thumb. If you stop all the oil leaks, are you prepared to start using bread crumbs to find your way home? It is either that, or a REALLY long string.

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TRDxB2
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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by TRDxB2 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:30 am

Not sure how bad a leak you have, but it is lubricating the pedal cams for you. ;)

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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by BE_ZERO_BE » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:37 am

Here is a solution from a friend.
 
Pedal Shaft Seals.JPG
Respectfully Submitted,
Be_Zero_Be

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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by fbergski » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:59 pm

I did the o-ring thing to the hogshead on my 11 touring. Both on the shafts and clutch shafts (from the inside). I'm glad to report they still weep oil. A proper lip seal is a better alternative. I rebushed and used new shafts and supports. Somewhat frustrated after all the work I did.


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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:36 pm

Philip

don't be too discouraged with a less-than-adequate result using o-rings. If o-ring design criteria really was "chamfer the ID some, and then schmoosh them tight" like is often suggested (and some have success with), then the Parker O-ring design handbook would not be 292 pages long, it would be published on a post card. Not only is there real, true design criteria, but for every o-ring size you can buy, there are many many o-ring compounds to chose from; each having a specific use, varying sizes and tolerances around a nominal size, heat ranges, chemical compatability, etc.

Success using many of the approved aproaches found on this forum should be a happy surprise, not an expectation. Small lip seals (National or equivalent) as typically found in transmissions, etc., installed into counterbored recesses, using new round shafts really is the way to go in the future.
Scott Conger

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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by fbergski » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:21 am

Scott_Conger wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:36 pm
Philip

don't be too discouraged with a less-than-adequate result using o-rings. If o-ring design criteria really was "chamfer the ID some, and then schmoosh them tight" like is often suggested (and some have success with), then the Parker O-ring design handbook would not be 292 pages long, it would be published on a post card. Not only is there real, true design criteria, but for every o-ring size you can buy, there are many many o-ring compounds to chose from; each having a specific use, varying sizes and tolerances around a nominal size, heat ranges, chemical compatability, etc.

Success using many of the approved aproaches found on this forum should be a happy surprise, not an expectation. Small lip seals (National or equivalent) as typically found in transmissions, etc., installed into counterbored recesses, using new round shafts really is the way to go in the future.
I chamfered the supports leaving .010 crush on the o-rings. I know all about the Parker o-ring book, I've worked for them for twenty three years this May.


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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:48 am

I've never found a design that called out a chamfer and crush, but if you did, then touche....perhaps it is an unpublished trade secret
Scott Conger

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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by Cordes_jeff » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:17 pm

I let them leak. I know a guy who sealed them so well he now has to grease the pedal cams manually!!


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DHort
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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by DHort » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:27 pm

The reason I asked for assistance is because I also have to drain the differential a couple times a year. I also need to remove the hogshead to see if there is a seal in the drive plate assembly. If the seal is in the drive plate, but it leaks, is it also possible to add something like a silicone seal to prevent the oil from going down the driveshaft?According to the service manual replacing the 4th main is not too difficult. I am wondering if I need a new ball cap(4th main) and if it can be installed with the motor in the car?


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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by jab35 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:41 am

Philip: Please elaborate on the O-ring application. Specifically, O-ring dimensions and material, and chamfer geometry & depth. I assume the 0.010" O-ring 'crush' is against a 45 degree chamfer in the cam bore and the flat side of the hogshead? Thanks, jb

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Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts

Post by fbergski » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:41 pm

I gave my pedal supports to one of our manual machinist and told him I need a 45 chamfer that left the o-ring .010 above the mating surface. Pure model t guess, .020 might be better who knows.

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