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Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:19 am
by DHort
Eventually I will need to remove the hogshead, but does anyone have any methods to slow down the leaks? It also leaks thru the universal cap, but not as much as it does thru the pedals.
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:20 am
by ivaldes1
There is the infamous 'o-ring trick' but I could not get it to work.
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:04 am
by Allan
The real answer is new pedal shafts, bronze bushes in the hogshead, especially in alloy covers, and lipped oil seals on the outer sides of the cover. Anything else is asking for divine intervention.
Allan from down under.
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:16 am
by Charlie B in N.J.
Here's a "quickie" that might do the trick as a temp fix. Clean the hogshead area around the shaft really good. A carb cleaner type spray works great for this. Apply a thin film of oil to the shaft. Don't get any on the hogs head. Use a good grade silicone and apply it to the hogshead & the shaft. It should not stick to the shaft because of the oil.A sizeable ammount is needed. When it sets the shaft should move freely with reduced oil leakage. I tried it once and it's quite OK. In fact I never removed it.
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:03 am
by modernbeat
While I haven't got mine together yet, I've got the proper tooling to machine the recesses to add seals to the pedal shafts and starter bushing.
Here's an example of adding seals to the pedals using the National 340849 seal.
https://modeltfordfix.com/how-to-keep-y ... territory/
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:57 am
by Dan Hatch
Only way to fix is bushings and seals in housings with new pedal shafts.
Also, put bushing and seal in clutch shaft. Dan
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:22 pm
by DickC
If you do any T touring with a group I would not "fix"it unless it is more that a little. The "drip" makes touring easier to to not get lost. Just follow the T tracks!!!
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:38 pm
by OilyBill
Dick C hit the nail right on the thumb. If you stop all the oil leaks, are you prepared to start using bread crumbs to find your way home? It is either that, or a REALLY long string.
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:30 am
by TRDxB2
Not sure how bad a leak you have, but it is lubricating the pedal cams for you.
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:37 am
by BE_ZERO_BE
Here is a solution from a friend.
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:59 pm
by fbergski
I did the o-ring thing to the hogshead on my 11 touring. Both on the shafts and clutch shafts (from the inside). I'm glad to report they still weep oil. A proper lip seal is a better alternative. I rebushed and used new shafts and supports. Somewhat frustrated after all the work I did.
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:36 pm
by Scott_Conger
Philip
don't be too discouraged with a less-than-adequate result using o-rings. If o-ring design criteria really was "chamfer the ID some, and then schmoosh them tight" like is often suggested (and some have success with), then the Parker O-ring design handbook would not be 292 pages long, it would be published on a post card. Not only is there real, true design criteria, but for every o-ring size you can buy, there are many many o-ring compounds to chose from; each having a specific use, varying sizes and tolerances around a nominal size, heat ranges, chemical compatability, etc.
Success using many of the approved aproaches found on this forum should be a happy surprise, not an expectation. Small lip seals (National or equivalent) as typically found in transmissions, etc., installed into counterbored recesses, using new round shafts really is the way to go in the future.
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:21 am
by fbergski
Scott_Conger wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:36 pm
Philip
don't be too discouraged with a less-than-adequate result using o-rings. If o-ring design criteria really was "chamfer the ID some, and then schmoosh them tight" like is often suggested (and some have success with), then the Parker O-ring design handbook would not be 292 pages long, it would be published on a post card. Not only is there real, true design criteria, but for every o-ring size you can buy, there are many many o-ring compounds to chose from; each having a specific use, varying sizes and tolerances around a nominal size, heat ranges, chemical compatability, etc.
Success using many of the approved aproaches found on this forum should be a happy surprise, not an expectation. Small lip seals (National or equivalent) as typically found in transmissions, etc., installed into counterbored recesses, using new round shafts really is the way to go in the future.
I chamfered the supports leaving .010 crush on the o-rings. I know all about the Parker o-ring book, I've worked for them for twenty three years this May.
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:48 am
by Scott_Conger
I've never found a design that called out a chamfer and crush, but if you did, then touche....perhaps it is an unpublished trade secret
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:17 pm
by Cordes_jeff
I let them leak. I know a guy who sealed them so well he now has to grease the pedal cams manually!!
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:27 pm
by DHort
The reason I asked for assistance is because I also have to drain the differential a couple times a year. I also need to remove the hogshead to see if there is a seal in the drive plate assembly. If the seal is in the drive plate, but it leaks, is it also possible to add something like a silicone seal to prevent the oil from going down the driveshaft?According to the service manual replacing the 4th main is not too difficult. I am wondering if I need a new ball cap(4th main) and if it can be installed with the motor in the car?
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:41 am
by jab35
Philip: Please elaborate on the O-ring application. Specifically, O-ring dimensions and material, and chamfer geometry & depth. I assume the 0.010" O-ring 'crush' is against a 45 degree chamfer in the cam bore and the flat side of the hogshead? Thanks, jb
Re: Any way to reduce hogshead leaks thru pedal shafts
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:41 pm
by fbergski
I gave my pedal supports to one of our manual machinist and told him I need a 45 chamfer that left the o-ring .010 above the mating surface. Pure model t guess, .020 might be better who knows.