MTFCA Forum

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:18 am**

Hi,
When I drove home today I thought about a couple of issues I would like to improve on the T and how I could accomplish it. One thing that really is annoying is vibration. Keeping the T under 30 mph is o.k. but maybe she could run much smoother even at that pace. Too bad that I have no chance to compare her with another T. Vibration probably all depends on the condition of the engine, which has been rebuilt sometime in the past. I have taken out rod shims and put new cam bearings in already, about 2 years ago. It came to my mind that the ears of the pan are bolted directly to the frame without any cushion unlike on a modern car. Maybe it was intention to make the car stiffer with the help of the engine and not just cost cutting. On the other hand that very flexibility and the three point suspension was part of the T's success in the early days of rough roads and no roads...
Sooo, would it hurt to put some rubber under the pan ears as well as left and right where they touch the frame rails? Somehow I feel this has been discussed before but I can't remember the outcome.
What do you think?
Thank you,
Bernd

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:51 am**

Try balance beads in the tyres, worked wonders for me.

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:02 am**

Brendan,
Thank you I will try that.
But what about engine vibration? Even when the car is not moving and the engine is revved up a little everything vibrates pretty bad. So I can imagine going down the road this adds to unbalanced wheels, hard road surface, no shock absorbers etc. But of course that is no excuse for not balancing the wheels. I just wonder how so many members are able to stand all that rattle, noise and "messaging" for so many miles...
With greetings from Germany,
Bernd

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:08 am**

My 1926 Runabout vibrates a lot over 25 miles per hour. Do you have the wood blocks between your pan ears and frame? I installed the blocks but the new bolts were too short and they are too tight. I bought longer bolts to fix this but I have not installed them yet.

Another solution I have read about in the book "Tinkerin' Tips" is to use radiator mounting springs in the pan ears. I do not recall how they are fitted but that could help. I did not try that.

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:19 am**

Bernd wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:18 am
Hi,
When I drove home today I thought about a couple of issues I would like to improve on the T and how I could accomplish it. One thing that really is annoying is vibration. Keeping the T under 30 mph is o.k. but maybe she could run much smoother even at that pace. Too bad that I have no chance to compare her with another T. Vibration probably all depends on the condition of the engine, which has been rebuilt sometime in the past. I have taken out rod shims and put new cam bearings in already, about 2 years ago. It came to my mind that the ears of the pan are bolted directly to the frame without any cushion unlike on a modern car. Maybe it was intention to make the car stiffer with the help of the engine and not just cost cutting. On the other hand that very flexibility and the three point suspension was part of the T's success in the early days of rough roads and no roads...
Sooo, would it hurt to put some rubber under the pan ears as well as left and right where they touch the frame rails? Somehow I feel this has been discussed before but I can't remember the outcome.
What do you think?
Thank you,
Bernd

Bernd,

I would not install the rubber pads you mention. As another has suggested above, just use the wood blocks & side bolts as designed.

This may sound like an odd thing to check, but imbalance in the fan blade can cause a surprising amount of vibration. Try driving a bit with the fan belt off and see if there's any difference.

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:51 am**

If you decide to put rubber pads under the transmission arms, then it will be a good idea to provide an alternate electrical path for the "neutral" or "ground" side of the battery. I always recommend doing so anyway, because it makes the starter work a little bit better.

You can easily buy a made-up cable almost any length, with tab-type terminals on both ends, at any auto parts store. They're normally used to go from a starter solenoid to the starter. The 12-volt cable size, which is too small to carry the whole load of the 6-volt starter is sufficient, because there are other paths for the electricity.

Attach it from a convenient bolt on the frame, to a convenient bolt on the engine. Be sure the surfaces are clean and bright, and the bolts are good and tight.

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:13 am**

One of my cars had springs under the pan ears when I got it. Perhaps the springs were not strong enough but I found the engine twisting excessively when accelerating to be annoying and I was concerned that it was actually putting more stress on the pan ears. I removed them and went back to the Ford method. I would love to be able to reduce vibration on all my T's and have driven some that have little or no vibration. Unfortunately, I think it is a combination of things on most cars and they all need to be balanced and free of excessive play if you want to keep vibration to a minimum.

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:46 am**

It's a 100 year old car, employing 100 year old technology. The best you're going to do is balance the engine and transmission someday, which will cost about 1/2 of the car's present total value unless you do it all yourself. Enjoy it for what it is.

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:16 am**

It depends on what you mean by "vibration". If it is misfiring on one cylinder, it would tend to vibrate and you would notice it more when the engine is pulling than on deceleration. However if the vibration is caused by unbalanced parts, you will not be able to stop the vibration without pulling everything down and re-balancing. In the latter case it could be caused by mismatch parts such as different types of connecting rods, unmatched pistons. Or the flywheel can be unbalanced. The gears and other transmission parts also could be out of balance.
Anyway, if it runs OK otherwise, it might be best to run it as is until you are ready to rebuild the entire engine and transmission.

There is sometimes a "harmonic" vibration at a certain speed. if you go slower or faster than that speed, it will smooth out.
Good luck.
Norm

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:17 pm**

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:46 am
It's a 100 year old car, employing 100 year old technology. The best you're going to do is balance the engine and transmission someday, which will cost about 1/2 of the car's present total value unless you do it all yourself. Enjoy it for what it is.

Old cowboy advice: “Don’t try to make your pony into something he ain’t.”

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:50 pm**

Thanks everybody for the info and advice,
the engine does have some misfiring quite noticeable when idling, so I have to address that. In addition there are door pins, the brake handle and the lately mounted sidelamps that rattle, the glass door that is. The windshield also contributes to the "harmony" at certain speeds together with gas and timing levers before the steering wheel chimes in...but she's dependable and I love the car.
Still not sure if I should pad the pan ears.
Regards,
Bernd

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:12 pm**

Bernd

post some pictures of your car preferably this spring, in your neck of the woods

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:26 pm**

Scott,
I will do that.
Regards Bernd

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:55 pm**

Bernd, I sent you a private message. I hope it did not go into your spam folder. Hope you can get your vibration problem solved. Frank Seress

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:58 pm**

Actually Ford did use a pad between the crankcase arm and the frame.

The factory part number was T-1906 and it was made of leather. It was first adopted 10-30-08 for the first Model Ts. Size was 2-3/4" long x 1-5/16" and the leather was 1/16" thick. It also had a slightly off center punched 13/32"hole. On February 2, 1915, the drawing changed to specify that it was now to be made from 2 pieces of imitation leather, 1/32" thick, glued together to make the 1/16" thick pad. All other dimensions remained the same. The part's last drawing is dated 8-6-17 with all dimensions the same but the thickness not specified.

Factory # TT-1906, for the truck, was made of band lining scrap. Size was 2-3/4" long x 1-1/8" wide with a slightly off center hole punched for the top arm bolt.

So now all you nonbelievers have to make them, and then go out to the shop, jack up the back of the engine, and and install them

Y'all 're welcome.

Posted: **Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:01 am**

You might check the front mount. The cap bolts can be tight, but if the parts are worn it will vibrate. Shim (=tin can) will fix it. Also, grease it.

And check the big nut that connects the manifold to the exhaust pipe, and that the silencer doesn't have loose parts inside.

Posted: **Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:20 am**

You didn't mention if the vibration is a new problem or every since working on the engine. Also how strong a vibration you are experiencing. Since they made counter weights, https://www.modeltford.com/item/3030CW.aspx, to make the engine run smoother some vibration. Take care of the misfiring to see if that helps. tschüss

Posted: **Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:49 pm**

Thank you everybody,
well that is quite a surprise that Ford had them pan ears padded originally. I wonder how many T's still have these leather pieces or how many restorers would put new ones under the ears when hanging the engine back in.
As for Jerrys idea with the vibrating fan, the car has an accessory fan with a motor behind it that will switch on when the radiator gets too hot. There is no fan belt and pulley and no source of vibration. It works great, so I will leave it like it came to me although I have all the parts to change it back to original.
Unfortunately I've had no time for the T today.
Regards,
Bernd

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