Accident today

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rgould1910
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Accident today

Post by rgould1910 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:21 pm

I was hit by a distracted driver. Serious fender and front end damage. Possible frame damage. Is there someone near Sacramento that does good body and fender repair. Be great if they did chassis repair too.
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Topic author
rgould1910
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Re: Accident today

Post by rgould1910 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:21 pm

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OilyBill
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Re: Accident today

Post by OilyBill » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:01 pm

Sorry to hear about that! Were they on the phone?
Any injuries?


Kevin Pharis
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Re: Accident today

Post by Kevin Pharis » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:15 pm

Huge bummer Richard!! At least the damage to the car is fairly minimal, and hopefully you are no more than shook up.

It looks like the walk home was pretty short too... isn’t that just at the end of your street?🤔


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rgould1910
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Re: Accident today

Post by rgould1910 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:25 pm

No injuries. Don't know why she didn't see me. She claimed she wasn't texting. She admitted liability to me on the spot and made some incriminating statements eg I was looking at nearby landscaping, but her ins co (Allstate) says I'm 35% to blame. I expect to file a claim in Small Claims court for the what they say is my share, but I'll contact the California Insurance Commissioner first. Their partial denial is a naked attempt to save money. After looking at the front end, I need to replace the axle and spindles for sure. The fender of course is trashed. Hope to salvage the rest. Don't know about the frame yet.

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Re: Accident today

Post by TRDxB2 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:35 am

I don't know how they can say were 35% to blame, why not 30% or 40%. When someone hits someone they are 100 % at fault.
Think they are trying to get you to settle for less. Was a Police report filed? Also let your insurance company battle with her insurance company - you shouldn't have to pay anything or need to go to small claims court.

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Re: Accident today

Post by Duey_C » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:47 am

Oof.
Bummer.
Go after 'em.
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated


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Re: Accident today

Post by KimDobbins » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:56 am

Glad your OK Richard, Allstate has got to be one of the worst. One of there insured hit me up in grass valley 2 years ago, admitted fault and then lied about it and I never got a dime. If you need any parts let me know.


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Re: Accident today

Post by 1194668jc » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:29 am

To the person who is inculpating you, I verbalizes this: Now you heedfully listen here, mister! Just 'cause the tin can is old don't mean nothing in terms of its reliability. While it may not speed to cruise with modern conveyances, an automobile is simple metal on wheels, no matter the age!

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Re: Accident today

Post by Matt in California » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:29 am

Richard,
Sorry to hear about the accident! Thank God no one was seriously injured. It is good to hear that you may only have trouble with the fenders/front axle and possibly the frame.

At this point your front fenders are better than the ones I have set aside for my Fordor project. Don't toss them. If you don't want them, I will take them off your hands.

Matt

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Re: Accident today

Post by AndreFordT » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:39 am

Lucky there were no injurys,

I was there before.
To repair it, you will need to take it all apart. Separate the body and the frame and look closer to the oilpan specialy the spot where the wishbone is attached. Have seen this before. By the 1915, at the first look, the oilpan was OK till I took it apart. The wishbone spot touched the coilring and broke it. The oilpan was also out of line.

Good luck
Andre
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Re: Accident today

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:10 am

I am so pleased that you are okay! The car can be fixed, and will probably be better than before after everything is checked, repaired,or replaced. Take it easy for a day or two.

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Re: Accident today

Post by FreighTer Jim » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:20 am

Erik Barrett in Auburn, California can help you with repairs.

Cell is @ 530-863-7579

FJ

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Re: Accident today

Post by Dan B » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:31 am

Kind of a weird picture. Can’t tell who was coming or going. What actually happened?
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Re: Accident today

Post by Adam » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:09 am

Unfortunately, the engine and maybe even the rear axle are very likely to have suffered catastrophic damage too (even if only slight alignment issues are apparent now). In my opinion, it is probably totaled for whatever you have it valued at on your insurance. If you were to pay a professional to find all the issues and fix them correctly it may far surpass the value of the vehicle. If you did everything yourself, that might be a different story, but if you were to do a complete restoration on a T, wouldn’t you want to start with something straight and solid? Someone I know was very minor-ly bumped from behind a few years ago with no apparent damage and it took a couple years for the resulting issues to show up.


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Re: Accident today

Post by Emeraude » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:34 am

Regarding the 35%.i was a claims adjuster for 40 years. It appears to me California is a comparative negligent state. This means each persons actions are compared to the facts and a percentage applied. On your accident I don,t have the facts and I think you should go through your insurance and let them subprgate


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Re: Accident today

Post by Dallas Landers » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:46 am

Check everything. Wishbone socket on the pan, wishbone, all suspension parts along with the frame. I have a 26 in my shop that must have taken a shot to the front wheel.
Bent axle, wishbone and socket, drag link, front crossmember and spring perch. Wheelbase was off by 1 inch with all the issues.


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Re: Accident today

Post by modeltbarn » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:52 am

Contact your own insurance and let them deal with the other one. The 35% sounds like BS.


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Re: Accident today

Post by Original Smith » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:13 am

1926 fenders are hard to find!


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Re: Accident today

Post by rgould1910 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:34 am

Thanks for all the information and support. I was thinking about using Jeff Beaumont for repairs. I heard he moved from Atascadero to Gardnerville Nv. Does anyone know how to contact him and whether he still does repairs?

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Re: Accident today

Post by Susanne » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:03 am

OUCH! That stings, no one wants to have to re-restore their own vehicle... especially thanks to a distracted driver.

Re the insurance, you need to get hold of YOUR insurance company and have them fight it out in court... My dad and stepmom were both in the insurance industry for years, there are well earned nicknames about them ("Fallstate", "The bad Hands People", etc.) in the industry that have been around for decades. (They keep legal divisions of other insurance companys working).

The at-fault insurance company cannot just automatically assign fault willy nilly (which they try to do to lessen their payout), your insurance company will need to dig in and to their work to protect you, their client.

Hopefully you got a police report?

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paddy1998
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Re: Accident today

Post by paddy1998 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:20 am

modeltbarn wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:52 am
Contact your own insurance and let them deal with the other one. The 35% sounds like BS.
I'm an attorney (not in California so this isn't legal advice) but trust me when I tell you that the above advice on how to deal with this is the best you're going to find.

This is why you pay for insurance. Make a claim with your carrier and let them fight with Allstate over fault. Forget about getting Allstate to admit fault, or getting the satisfaction of having a small claims judge rule in your favor. Neither is likely to happen.

As a young buck, just out of law school and all fired up I defended these kinds of cases for an insurance company in Chicago. It was great trial experience because we settled nothing - ever. We made jury demands in small claims cases and forced a trial in every case.

The day I was sworn in as an attorney I defended a property damage case where my client rear-ended someone else. My client didn't show up for the trial so the only issue for the jury was the amount. The guy was asking for something like $3,500 and the jury gave him like $2,200.

Allstate does not care about your case, they care about ALL their small property damage cases, and the insurance companies have devised a system to minimize their payouts: Deny, Delay, Don't Pay.

Deny or minimize liability, no matter how ridiculous.

Delay the process. Send young lawyers to try every case.

Don't pay. Just because the court awards you a judgment doesn't mean a check will be forthcoming. Some of these carriers will force you to file supplementary proceedings to force them to pay the judgment.

Even if you are awarded everything you ask for it will be a year or more before you see any money.

Seriously, just make a claim with your insurance and let them duke it out. You have better things to do with your life than become a chew toy for a 25 year old lawyer for the next 18 months.


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Re: Accident today

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:45 am

Scott

that was great advice and a very good explaination

My ex-wife worked at an insurance company which I will not name but has been mentioned. A co-worker in the office was complaining about a re-occuring issue she was dealing with. My Ex inquired...the other gal explained to her that she denied the claim without study, because the policy holder had a single car policy, not multi-car policy, and in his case, two cars were involved, thus no pay-out. As patently rediculous as this sounds, this is not a made up story. There really are people this stupid in the workplace (Darwin was wrong...the fittest are not the only ones survive). This ding-bat was the first line of defense for the insurance company, when the policy holder really thought they were talking to "an adjuster".

Can you imagine how furious the policy-holder would be, if he/she knew the level of stupidity he was fighting to get past the gatekeeper???
Scott Conger

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Re: Accident today

Post by jiminbartow » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:55 am

I am very sorry to hear of your accident. Smart of you to get photos. Better if you have photos that contain unique features that will help orient the two vehicles so you can recreate the accident so as to prove who was at fault. Hopefully, you have photos showing her vehicle as well. I am concerned, however, that the damage to your front end can be interpreted as you hitting her. If you can disprove this, please do all you can to do so.

In any negotiations, the insurance companies always lowballs you at first. When I had a house fire in 1987, I was injured and in the hospital with burns for 2 weeks and unable to meet with the insurance adjuster. He tried to take advantage and offered to settle for $50,000.00. Coincidentally, the day I received the lowball offer, Dad brought me my mail and, in it, I received a flyer from “Tutwiler and Associates” A “public adjuster” who is basically an insurance adjuster who works for you and knows all the tricks of the trade. I called him and he handled the negotiations and we settled on $120,000.00. His fee was 6%.

In 2012, I was T-boned in my truck by another driver, breaking my femur. Luckily, before I passed out, I was able to call my wife who drove down and took several crucial pictures showing the front tire of my crumpled truck beside a very unique dividing line and also pictures showing the orientation of the truck that hit me. Based on an accident recreation diagram submitted by a rookie cop showing the vehicles in the wrong positions, the police report said the accident was my fault. I knew different, because I had the green arrow and was halfway through a left hand turn when I was hit, but based upon the faulty police report, the insurance company offered to settled for the insulting amount of $1.50. It made me mad, so I hired a lawyer. I then hired an aerial photographer who flew over the intersection taking some great photos showing the unique dividing line where my truck ended up. We had this blown up and made scale overhead paper cutouts of the vehicles involved, to show their actual positions before and after the crash. Turns out my truck was pushed sideways, 95’ from the point of impact to the resting point. Armed with our photos and visual aids, we met with the insurance Company and an arbitrator and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the accident was the fault of the other driver. The insurance company settled on $150,000.00. Do your homework and get some help. You should be able to get 100%, as long as you did not hit her in the rear or in the side. Were you able to get any witnesses? Did anyone stop? If not, put an article in the paper asking anyone who witnessed the accident to please come forward. People have a tendency to remember seeing Model T’s driving down the road. More so, if it is involved in a fender bender. Good luck. Jim Patrick


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Re: Accident today

Post by John Codman » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:45 pm

I'm glad that you are OK, Richard. I agree that you should work it out through your insurance company. I have Hagerty on my T with an agreed-value policy. If you have an agreed-value policy, that's what they will pay you for a total loss, and they will not spend over the agreed value. Please note that there is a huge difference between an agreed-value policy and a declared-value policy; in the latter, the insurance company can (and will most likely) say that your declared value was in excess of what the car was really worth.


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Re: Accident today

Post by Dropacent » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:11 pm

It’s a REALLY bad day when you run into a lawyer ! Those front fenders are going to be tough to find, but there are still NOS ones floating around. Good luck, glad you weren’t hurt.

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Re: Accident today

Post by Richard G » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:14 pm

MY SON DRIVES IN A HEAVY TRAFFIC SITUATION TWICE A DAY, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT TAKE PLACE IN FRONT OF HIM MAKES HIM WANT TO CHANGE JOBS, HE BOUGHT A DASH CAMERA [LESS THAN 100 BUCKS] IT RUNS ON THE CAR VOLTAGE, [12V] WOULD A SMALL MOTORCYCLE BATTERY HID SOME WHERE RUN THIS THING, IT MAY COME TO THAT BECAUSE WE ARE IN THE WAY ON LOTS OF HIGH WAYS, THINKING THIS WOULD BE GOOD PROOF WHAT TOOK PLACE, IM LUCKY, I LIE IN FARM COUNTRY,LOTS OF SLO MOVING TRACTORS, AND PEOPLE ARE IN NO HURRY,[YET]! good luck Richard ,your little ford is badly bent but will live again.


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Re: Accident today

Post by Dan Hatch » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:06 pm

Someday if anyone has a couple hours I can tell you a horror story about Allstate. And I had Allstate for 20+ years. Let your insurance company deal with it. Dan


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rgould1910
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Re: Accident today

Post by rgould1910 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:02 pm

That's funny,Tim. I wish my profession made it easier to get repairs done. Lol

I had a chance to go through the car this morning and discovered that there were more things damaged than what I first thought.

Specifically the pan is sprung, the front axle is bent, the spindles are bent, the radius rod is bent, the fender is destroyed, this splash apron is bent and the driver's head light rim is damaged as well as the headlight bar and the bucket.
In addition there is a question as to whether there is damage to the following items: the front wheel bearings, the frame and crossmember, the spring perches and shackles as well as the radiator shroud.

The agreed value of the car is $10000.

I will bring the car to Eric Barrett this Saturday morning. I anticipate he will place the car on a lift and figure an estimate for insurance purposes.

I appreciate all the kind remarks, the support and good information from everyone.

Thank you


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Re: Accident today

Post by tdump » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:09 pm

Alot of good advice has been given.
1 thing I will mention, keep a good track of how you were feeling before,and after this event. Let your doctor know you were in a accident and you might even ought to go for a visit.Maby you will be lucky and nothing is wrong,But sometimes injurys take days to show up.2 weeks ago A buddy of mine pulled in front of a little Kia suv while driving a 2003 Tundra pickup,they had to cut him out of the truck.Seat bottom is half it's original width.He was walking around,sore, had his arm in a sling. He started turning yellow,black and blue and red,and then his feet started swelling up,toes swelling,knee swollen,and his family has a history of blood clot related deaths. I told him to get his hardheaded @$$ to the doctor!
I need to call him and see how he is doing matter of fact.
But another reason I mentioned this,he has a insurance that will "pay" for his truck. Yea, they offered him 4500 and they take the truck! Yea, right. The engine is worth half that.Be carefull of that insurance company,I know from experiance they WILL try their dead level best to get out cheap as they can.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


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Re: Accident today

Post by jiminbartow » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:06 pm

With all the hours and materials that go into a nicely restored Model T, I think that $12,000.00 would be a more realistic value and that is still undervalued for all the work that is involved. If they pay up, do not allow them to keep your T. Jim Patrick


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Re: Accident today

Post by Norman Kling » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:20 pm

Could you explain how that happened or have some other pictures such as damage to the other car? From the angle of the picture, it looks like the damage is on the wrong side of the car. And I don't see any damage to the other car. If you were coming out of a driveway, the court is likely to say you are responsible, but if you were going straight and the other swerved into your lane, it would be the other driver's fault. Did your car spin around so that it looks different in the picture than it really was? And lastly, is the other car in the picture the one with which you collided?
I do agree with the others that you need to remove the body from the frame and do a complete check for anything else which might be out of alignment. I think someone skilled with body tools could fix that fender, and even the axle could be straightened. However front axles are not hard to find Before you try to start the engine, check alignment of the crankcase and frame and maybe you will get lucky depending on how bad it was bent. You can find someone with crankcase alignment jig who can straighten it.
Anyway, the more things you check before you try to drive it the less likely to have more damage than already occurred. also check the straightness of the front wheel rim.
Sad to see what happened to your car, but at least the people were not injured.
Norm


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Re: Accident today

Post by Dallas Landers » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:33 pm

The crossmember is probably bent forward on one side and bent to the rear on the other. Damage looks the same as my buddy's 26 Im working on. His was restored and new interior but the suspension was left wrecked. He purchased it that way not knowing what was wrong with the car. It sounds like you have a knowledgeable person giving an estimate. Hope it all works out for you and glad nobody was injured.


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rgould1910
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Re: Accident today

Post by rgould1910 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:43 pm

Norm, the accident happened at a residential intersection. The intersection was shaped like a T. The other driver and I were approaching each other at the intersection from each side of the T top. She had a stop sign, I didn't. She came to a stop as I was turning left to the stem of the T in front of her. I had just started the turn when she accelerated from the stop sign and hit me. I stopped my car about 1/3 of the way into the turn thinking she would either stop herself or a go around me. No such luck. She didn't even see me. Hard as it is to believe, that's the way it happened. She stated she was looking at some landscaping but I distinctly remember seeing her looking straight ahead. I suspect she was lost in thought and oblivious to her surroundings.
The injustice of it is, having a modern car, she can simply deliver her car to any body shop and have it repaired. I've yet to find a repair shop that can correct chassis damage to a Model T. Even the classic car restoration shops don't offer that service.
That being said, Erik Barrett in Auburn has offered to repair it. Thank you Erik
The other part that is disturbing is I have spent 1 1/2 years working on this car and just completed a 100 percent mechanical restoration. Cosmetically the car was excellent when I purchased it, but the mechanics were a mess. Its the longest restoration I've ever done and I've done a few. When the accident occurred I was in the final stages of carburetor adjustment and on a test run.

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TRDxB2
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Re: Accident today

Post by TRDxB2 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:38 pm

rgould1910 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:43 pm
.... I stopped my car about 1/3 of the way into the turn thinking she would either stop herself or a go around me. No such luck. She didn't even see me....
So if you hadn't stopped she would have hit you broadside, likely that would have caused the T to tip over on top of you. Mention that to your insurance agency.


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rgould1910
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Re: Accident today

Post by rgould1910 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:08 pm

Scary thought. You see from the photos how far she turned me after the collision.


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Re: Accident today

Post by Norman Kling » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:26 pm

Wow! These things happen when you least expect it. I don't know who your insurance company is, but the ones which specialize in Antique cars will cover you for collision as well as liability. So if you are covered for collision the car should be covered regardless of who the court claims at fault. Report it to your insurance company and they will take care of it because they don't want to pay and they will do everything they can to get her insurance to pay for it. If it is ruled your fault, your insurance will cover it. They might claim it "totaled" and if so you might have to pay a fee to receive it for junk value. Either way, Someone in the club will know of a company who can do the work if you don't want to or feel you are not qualified to do so.
Again, sorry for your loss.
Norm


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Re: Accident today

Post by 1194668jc » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:56 am



radiatorman
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Re: Accident today

Post by radiatorman » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:04 am

Sorry to hear about your accident , glad you weren't hurt. As for the fenders you can buy new ones for around $550 via most of the Model T suppliers listed in Model T suppliers. I bought two for my 26 Tudor from Snyder's a few years ago and they needed some minor adjustments.

My wife was sandwiched once between a pickup truck and a school bus in her two seat Honda Civic that only had 15,000 miles. The female driver wasn't charged even though she was lighting up a with one hand and a cell phone in the other, she new the officer. As for insurance compensation they initially didn't offer much and I held my ground to get what I wanted. We agreed on a price and after he wrote it down I came back with a counter offer of $200 so I could keep the car. I used the fact they would have to contract someone to haul it away and pay to have it at a salvage auction to dispose of it, he agreed. I parted the car out since it had very low mileage and the engine and transmission sold for $2,300 which I made $1,200 above what we paid for the car, Got another $500 for the body. The insurance also pressured us to sign a non-injury release which we refused, since some injuries don't show up right away.


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Re: Accident today

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:27 pm

From the looks of that fender? Unless it was already in poor shape with lots of welds and too much filler, it should be an easy repair. About a day bolted to something solid (the frame?) and a come-along rigged in just the right direction. Pulling it back slowly while relieving stresses using the usual hammers and dolly blocks, should have it ninety percent straightened. Finishing and painting would take longer than making it look decent, but one would have to do all that with any used fender one would choose to use. I have straightened fenders oh-so-very much worse than that a few times.

Just a thought to consider? If I recall correctly? About two years ago, Phil Lawrence had a really nice frame for sale at the Auburn swap meet. I "think" it was a '26/'27 (I could be wrong?) and I know it did not sell at the meet. He wanted good money for it, however all the hard work was done, checked, straightened, running board brackets included, sand blasted and ready for paint.

If the other driver had a stop sign, and you did not? Legally (I am NOT a lawyer!!!!!) she would be one hundred percent at fault. However, it has been quite awhile since Califunny has followed its own laws.

One of my sons some years ago was hit by some bone-brain not paying any attention to what he was doing. His employer's insurance was only willing to pay about a third of the value of his car (low blue book value for a beautifully maintained sports car). He was not hurt at all, but the threat of injury claims and they offered almost the value of the car for a signature not to pursue injury claims. (We actually did not threaten them, just an off-hand comment about their being lucky there were no injuries.)


Take it easy for a few days Richard. Again, I am simply pleased that you were not seriously hurt.


R.V.Anderson
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First Name: R.V.
Last Name: Anderson
Location: Kennedy, NY

Re: Accident today

Post by R.V.Anderson » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:29 pm

About 12 years ago my parked truck was wiped out by a DWI (BAC was nearly four times the legal limit). His insurance also offered only about a third of the truck's value. I countered with some Blue Book values and some other documentation. Everything I sent them was ignored, so I took them to Small Claims. They never showed so I won by default. But then they refused to pay the judgement. I sent them monthly requests for payment, adding on the interest each 30 days as specified by law, and still nothing from them. Finally I went to my lawyer who told me that ignoring a judgement could cost them their license to do business in NY. So since he was a friend, he gave me a secret phone number known only by lawyers. It was to the head Head HEAD honcho in the state insurance office. I called and spoke with a human bulldog. Soon as she heard that they were ignoring a judgement, she growled, snarled, and barked to me, not at me, and she also told me what my lawyer friend had said: they were risking their NY license. After hanging up and my ears stopped ringing I almost felt sorry for whoever took her call at the insurance office. But she apparently bit them in the right places; I had the amount of the judgement in a couple days. But they ignored the added interest funds. In retrospect I should have called the office back and told the bulldog, but she was intimidating in the extreme, though she was on my side, so I let it slide.


Wayne Sheldon
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Location: Grass Valley Califunny, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Accident today

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:28 pm

R.V., Those "secret" names and numbers can be fun. And of course, one MUST be careful to not abuse the privilege. Many years ago, a lot of the work we did was "overseen" by the FCC. Along with that, my dad did do consulting work for some very special clients. Occasionally, we would run into someone that did not want to abide by the laws they were required to. More than a few times, all we had to do was mention the first name, and a specific floor of the Federal Building in downtown San Francisco, instant cooperation. (I won't give the name, or the floor number, besides, he was older than I and I was forced to retire five years ago.) My dad was actually on a first name basis with the man. And I met him several times myself, usually at special seminars attended by the FCC.

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