The 15,000 000 gallons of oil.

[Bud Delong]

I know what Henry said but has anyone ever looked in the archives to see what the 15,000 000 gallons of Ford bought for the Model T"S?? Did Ford supply oil to dealers,and if so what??? Thank You.Bud.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Bud,

Not sure who supplied what or when, but the bill-of-sale for my Grandfather's '26 Fordor had a separate charge on it for "Gas & Oil". So, I don't know who supplied it, but I know who paid for it.

[DanTreace]

Bud

Henry didn't fully oil the crankcase, why spend factory $$ on that!

So Ford didn't have any oil of their own, the Factory Branches were noted in the Owner's Manual to ask them what type of oil was best to use.

Owner's Manuals first 3 things are to add water, gas, and oil to the T before starting when it was shipped to the dealer.

Here is the 1909 Manual, note the shipping instructions and that only a little oil was in the crankcase from the factory, and no gas in the tank nor water in the rad.

[Bud Delong]

Early Fords were ran and adjusted so did Henry drain the oil?? Later Fords were started on rollers and driven out of the plants so i m to think with no oil??? Henry must have bought a lot of oil,so what was it? Bud.

[Rich Bingham]

What was it ? Nothing that’s available today I’m pretty sure. For that matter, motor oils sold today are mostly very different from many types that were available only 20 years ago. The common wisdom on this forum is that “any” modern oil is far superior to what was commonly used “back in the day”. While it’s obvious the new stuff has become very specialized and far more sophisticated, something tells me the finer points are lost on the Model T.

[25 roadster john]

Seems like they had oil, water and fuel but drained before shipping. As Bud pointed out those films with all those Model T's shooting out the factory door had to have all there fluids. I'm curious about this 15,000.000 gallons of oil? First I'm hearing of it.

John P

[Susanne]

I've seen pictures of engines at the factory being "run in" via electric motors, and I understood the oil they used during this (and the initial run) was drained back out and reused. To me, this makes sense and (being the emperor of cutting costs Ford was) would be much cheaper. This would also explain the notation of a "small amount of oil in the engine"; I also remember a warning to the initial purchaser to make sure the oil level was brought up to the second petcock before starting.

I'm not sure how much oil they could get away with from the tire-roller start, out the door to the holding yards - I figure it couldn't have been that far, so possibly they ran a miniscule quantity of oil (a pint or less? Who knows?) for that first short hop to the rail yards, thence to be partially disassembled for loading into the cars.

[Bud Delong]

15,000 000 Model T"S so i guessed at one gallon per T but that number is only a number.It makes sense to me when stacked in boxcars they might have been drained.I doubt the assembled cars driven out were drained?? Any way shape or form,Henry bought a lot of oil and i wonder what it was?? As for modern oil that was not my question as that opinion is that everyone has one!! Bud.

[TRDxB2]

10....................

[TRDxB2]

15 million or 15 thousand. to much speculation 1gal per car? purchased over a period of time that T's were manufactured? engine or gear oil? Don't you need "oil" to assemble and engine, differential, bushings, etc. Not enough quantity to share with dealer's

[A Whiteman]

Did they not use oil as well to lube manufacturing machines and possibly as cutting lube too? Could this quantity include that oil - I imagine quite a bit would have been used in manufacture?

[noelchico]

don't forget the oil/grease in the differential

[TWrenn]

To take the TIME, let alone "catch" all the oil and coolant being drained, then transporting it back to wherever into the factory, didn't really make much economic sense to me. Had to be one helluva gathering of workers to do all that work as those cars were rolling out the factory at like nobody's business at the peak! I'm not saying it wasn't done, I'm just thinking it was not as cost effective as Ol' Henry may have thought. Sometimes one is penny-wise, and pound-foolish. Just my stupid opinion.

[DanTreace]

In at least 1915, according to book, Ford Methods and Ford Shops, the steps of chassis assembly are numbered and noted, at step #78 for the Engine Assembly, "Tighten trans. cover to pan bolts, and put in cotter pins and oil".

Didn't specify how much oil.

But this photo shows the 'oil measuring tube', that has a valve and dumps the oil into the crankcase inspection cover opening, saves time as the oil is pre-measured, just don't know the amount, but maybe to just the lower petcock for testing and factory runs.

Later in Chassis Assembly on the line, # 71/2 Place one gallon of gasoline in the gasoline tank, on gas tank bridge. That is the place above the assembly line, so the tank had 1 gal., in step # 8, Two men, place gasoline tank and fix same, also place gasoline feed pipe.

Step #9 One Man, dope gun, inject 4 lbs. of heavy grease into the bevel gear and differential housing. Place 1 lb. heavy grease in U-joint globe housing.
The next step was placing the motor and hooking up U-joint, without mention following other steps of adding additional oil to the motor.

Later step, #44, put water in radiator and lift rear wheels to put chassis on starting station friction wheels, and attach exhaust hose, that step has the famous photo of the chassis with operator on the gas tank, and the guy filling the rad.

One can assume, on shipment, the T or chassis only needed to be dry, so radiator, gas tank, and crankcase were likely drained, the crankcase likely was less drained, as hard to make it completely dry again. Maybe only the lower petcock was opened, and drained there, that is if that much oil was placed in the beginning.


As for recycle, Ford did that in all areas, from the beginning, making thousands of cars a day, recycle of scrap was very important. Lot of info in the later Ford Industries booklet:

[Bud Delong]

Seeing as Ford had their own powerhouses the used/saved oil might have been burned. After all the work and expense of a new running T engine,i doubt Ford would dump used oil in any new engine.Nice to see all this,but i still wonder about the brand and wt of oil used?? For Fathers Day the Wife sent the membership funds so i"m back in the fold!! Bud.

[OilyBill]

Nearly every old car that I have my manual for, says that they were shipped drained. Not just Ford, but Brush, Franklin, Overland, REO, etc, all seem to have shipped their vehicles in the "drained" condition.
What I suspect is it was not so much a savings of money on oil, as it was a demand by the railroads that all these box cars be left clean, without big oil and water splotches all over the wooden floors. Not only a fire hazard and a slipping hazard for railroad workers, but also a problem for the next cargo the car was to carry. (cotton, lumber, wooden crates with furniture or musical instruments, shoes, textiles, etc. etc. etc.
I can see draining the water for another reason as well. If the car is drained of water, there is no concern about freeze damage to the radiators and engines. No one can tell how long the boxcar will sit on the siding in North Dakota before it moves on it's way.
None of the owner's manuals I have tell the new owner to check the rear axle or transmission oil, so I assume these were always filled at the factory. Most of the manuals are written from the standpoint that the new owner will be taking delivery of their new car at the railroad station, and tell them to closely inspect the boxcar door seals, before the locks are removed and the doors opened, in case the seals have been tampered with. Then they go into how to unblock the car, including emphasis on pounding down any nail heads on the floor of the boxcar After the automobile is removed from the boxcar, they instruct the new owner to fill up the oil and water, and connect the battery (Or the dry-cells, in the case of the Brush). They also recommend that if the new owner has never driven an automobile before, he enlist the help of someone who has, in getting the car started and operating it for the first time, after it has been unloaded and is in a clear space for starting up.
It must have been a pretty awesome experience to go down to the train station, and unload your brand new car. I'm sure for most people, their first car was the most beautiful thing they had ever owned in their lives.
Plus, for a lot of the tinier companies, like Brush, and Metz, if you bought the car, you got a dealership along with it. Talk about having your vest button bust on the Big Day!
Why, you'd have to wear your GOOD hat!

[Rich Bingham]

Bill, there’s an old wooden boxcar on our place that has been used as a shed for over sixty years. Stenciled on the walls it says :
“this car is not to be loaded with coal, hides, or anything that will make it unfit for high-class lading”.

I’m guessing automobiles and machinery were probably included in that “anything” ! There are also marks to indicate the levels corn, wheat, rye and oats may be loaded. I’m pretty sure the grain would have been loaded in 100# sacks, not in “bulk”.

[ModelTWoods]

I'm probably wrong, but my memory recalls that some Model T's (probably the the brass era production) were shipped in boxcars with the bodies and fenders disassembled from the chassis, and I seem to recall pictures of chassis loaded into boxcars with the chassis tipped (tilted) in extreme angles. As bad as stock Model T's leak (in the best of conditions), I wonder how any oil would have stayed in the engine/transmission.

[OilyBill]

Thank you, Rich!
This is the first time I have heard of such a label, but in thinking about it, it must have been pretty common.
Even if you shipped your grain in sacks, there would still be the possibility of soaking up anything on the floor of the boxcar.
I can sure understand the warning in relation to animal hides. I walked into a barn that was used to store removed hides prior to them being sent to a tannery, and it was REALLY GROSS. Not exactly the smell of dead bodies, but pretty close, and VERY pungent. A boxcar used for those would be unusable for anything I can think of, except perhaps for bags of coal.
I like to think that the railroads looked at moving automobiles as "high class dunnage", but they probably looked at them as a general PITA.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

The last new lawnmower I bought, came with an empty gas tank, (as you would expect), and with no oil in the engine. Pretty much the same as a Model T 100 years ago I guess and most likely for all the same reasons.

[TRDxB2]

Looks like there were several alternative ways to deliver the cars. Found the leaning cars too
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/33 ... 1383834795
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/33 ... 1381841151
https://forums.aaca.org/topic/302326-ho ... nt-1681767
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/84724.html

[D Stroud]

Rich B., not sure what time frame your boxcar was from, but back in the early '50's, back here in NW MO., boxcars were loaded with loose grain and the side doors were enclosed with "car siding", boards that had tongue and groove or shiplap siding. I lived next to a Railroad in the early/mid 50's in a small town of about 90 people that had an "Elevator" ( Grain handling structure" ) along a siding of the tracks. Dave

[Bud Delong]

Well we still not found what brand or wt of oil used,but if one opens the links we see great pictures and many names too long silent!!! Thank"s Bud.

[FreighTer Jim]

From Here @ https://petrolicious.com/articles/this- ... 20standard.


" Dr. Ellis is credited as being the first person to devise a way to keep friction at bay in large steam engines, settling on petroleum lubricant for the task. All motor oil today solves the same problems it did back in 1866, albeit to a far better standard.

And with the internal combustion engines set to revolutionize the world, the first lubricants were pitched by Dr. Ellis’ nascent company, Valvoline. Henry Ford was an early customer, with a demanding request: the World Land Speed Record.

Henry Ford himself set a land speed record in 1904, behind the wheel of a monstrous and primitive machine called the “999”. His up-to-100 horsepower engine gave the bodywork-less 999 a top speed of 91.37 mph. As early inventors also often showed, Ford was not short on bravery: the speed was hit on a frozen lake in Michigan.

A few years after his speed record helped attract press and investors for his new automotive venture, Henry Ford’s Model T arrived on the scene with a curiously specific warning on its dashboard: “This car is filled with Valvoline light motor oil. We recommend its use. No other oil should be used in this car.”

Being an ever-evolving lubricant for ever-changing applications, the history of a consumable liquid like oil isn’t easy to piece together. But one of the first big developments was to create a near-universal motor oil that could be used in any engine. "


FJ

[TRDxB2]

Well we still not found what brand or wt of oil used,but if one opens the links we see great pictures and many names too long silent!!! Thank"s Bud.

From https://modeltfordfix.com/care-and-feed ... el-t-ford/ More info on that site just copied some...
"When Ford started building the 1909 Model T in the fall of 1908 there were not oil grades such as we have become familiar with today. The Society of Automobile Engineers (SAE) which was formed in 1905 did not identify oil grades for several years. The industry standards for motor oil were far different from what we have today. There were oils designed for motor car “cylinder use” in other words, oil to use in the crank case. These types of oils were available in three (or more depending on the oil company) basic grades known simply as “Light”, “Medium” and “Heavy”" from Dykes Manual note the Brands and warning about using graphite oil

Dykes-oil1.jpg (85.3 KiB) Viewed 6228 times

from Dykes Manual

[Bud Delong]

Thank you Frank and i think we know know for a fact what Ford used!! Jim,if you ever get the opp at The Henry Ford Lay on the floor and look up at the crancase of the 999.You might doubt what you see!!!!!! Bud.

[FreighTer Jim]

Has anyone ever seen this on a Model T ?

I have not seen any other reference to Valvoline oil being recommended by Ford Motor Company
other than I found above in my previous post.

Henry Ford’s Model T arrived on the scene with a curiously specific warning on its dashboard:
“This car is filled with Valvoline light motor oil. We recommend its use. No other oil should be used in this car.”


FJ

[TRDxB2]

Has anyone ever seen this on a Model T ? I have not seen any other reference to Valvoline oil being recommended by Ford Motor Company other than I found above in my previous post.
Henry Ford’s Model T arrived on the scene with a curiously specific warning on its dashboard:
“This car is filled with Valvoline light motor oil. We recommend its use. No other oil should be used in this car.”
FJ

Here is the story https://petrolicious.com/articles/this- ... -motor-oil
(Henry Ford himself set a land speed record in 1904, behind the wheel of a monstrous and primitive machine called the “999”. His up-to-100 horsepower engine gave the bodywork-less 999 a top speed of 91.37 mph. As early inventors also often showed, Ford was not short on bravery: the speed was hit on a frozen lake in Michigan.
A few years after his speed record helped attract press and investors for his new automotive venture, Henry Ford’s Model T arrived on the scene with a curiously specific warning on its dashboard: “This car is filled with Valvoline light motor oil. We recommend its use. No other oil should be used in this car.”) May have been the only one so marked.
And more about that story https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/r/car ... -motor-oil
In 1895, Valvoline lubricated the two-cylinder 1-3/4 horsepower Duryea wagon that won the first auto race in America. In 1904, Henry Ford broke the land speed record—at 91.37 mph—in the four-wheel “999," which had a gasoline engine that was lubricated and optimized by Valvoline motor oil. Four years later, the auto magnate publicly endorsed the Valvoline brand when he launched the world's first mass-produced, affordable car, the Model T. That car's popularity also helped make Valvoline a household name, and the basic compounded oil recipe that Ellis originally discovered is the same basic oil that we use in cars today.
And by who else http://www.valvolinequicklubes.com/reso ... ick-lubes/
Dr. John Ellis saw that crude oil wouldn’t work for the demands of combustion engines and by 1866, when those engines were in development, he had created the first automobile specific lubricant. By 1920. When the first mass-produced Model T left the factory, every unit was filled with Valvoline motor oil.

And it was already noted that none of the cars were shipped "filled with oil"