Oillevel in Oilpan

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
ABoer
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:41 pm
First Name: Anthonie
Last Name: Boer
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 touring 1923 roadster 1925 pickup
Location: Klaaswaal NL
MTFCA Number: 19790

Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by ABoer » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:20 am

Last week someone send me an Oilpan to do some work on.
This pan has a dam .
What do you think about the Oil level .????
The dam is about one inch below the gasket surface
Thanks for your answer .
Toon
IMG_1208.JPG


mtntee20
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:51 pm
First Name: Terry & Sharon
Last Name: Miller
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 Center Door, 1920 TTWood cab Farm Truck with cable dump grain bed, 1920 TT C-Cab with express bed, 1927 Wood body Dairy Delivery truck
Location: Westminster, CO
MTFCA Number: 32583
Board Member Since: 2017

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by mtntee20 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:31 am

Toon,

Is the dam welded on all THREE sides or is the welding on just TWO sides with the bottom "open"? With the bottom open, the oil could drain back into the rest of the pan when the engine is off while retaining oil when the engine is running.

I do NOT think the size of the dam is appropriate as I believe it will retain too much oil under the crankshaft and "starve" the transmission of an adequate amount of oil. A shorter dam, maybe between 1 and 2 inches tall, might be OK to retain some oil under the crankshaft but the dam needs to be open at the bottom to allow the excess oil to drain out. Think about when you need to remove the inspection cover to check/adjust bearings on the crankshaft. Just my opinion.

Cheers,
Terry

User avatar

Topic author
ABoer
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:41 pm
First Name: Anthonie
Last Name: Boer
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 touring 1923 roadster 1925 pickup
Location: Klaaswaal NL
MTFCA Number: 19790

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by ABoer » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:42 am

Terry ; The dam is welded on all three sides .
Toon


Kerry
Posts: 1297
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:42 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: van Ekeren
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 touring, 1916 pick-up, 1924 coupe, 1926 touring, 1927 touring
Location: Rosedale Vic Australia

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by Kerry » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:43 am

I've found that damming any higher than about an 1/8" above the horse shoes can make the engine burn oil like crazy. :o


Adam
Posts: 1411
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 am
First Name: Adam
Last Name: Doleshal
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘13 Touring, ‘24 Touring, ‘25 TT dump truck, ‘26 Tudor, ‘20 Theiman harvester T powerplant, ‘20 T Staude tractor
Location: Wisconsin
MTFCA Number: 23809
MTFCI Number: 1
Board Member Since: 2000

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by Adam » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:58 am

The oil system in the Model T was designed to provide the right amount of oil. Not too little and not too much.


mtntee20
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:51 pm
First Name: Terry & Sharon
Last Name: Miller
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 Center Door, 1920 TTWood cab Farm Truck with cable dump grain bed, 1920 TT C-Cab with express bed, 1927 Wood body Dairy Delivery truck
Location: Westminster, CO
MTFCA Number: 32583
Board Member Since: 2017

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by mtntee20 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:47 am

Toon,

If it were my pan, I would remove the dam. I agree with Adam, Ford designed the engine to run without a dam with the correct amount of oil in the pan. If you trap oil under the crankshaft, you risk not having enough oil in the transmission for lube and more important: cooling.

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 5412
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by TRDxB2 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:02 am

Does the engine have an oil line (internal or external)? How would you tell how much oil was actually in the engine area with that?
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger

User avatar

Topic author
ABoer
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:41 pm
First Name: Anthonie
Last Name: Boer
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 touring 1923 roadster 1925 pickup
Location: Klaaswaal NL
MTFCA Number: 19790

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by ABoer » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:15 am

Frank B
I don't nothing about that engine .
The owner send me just the pan .
The Oillevel is a mystery to for me ????
Toon

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 4957
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1920 Dodge touring, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
Location: Portland Or
MTFCA Number: 52564
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:27 am

I wonder if it had been used on an engine that was used as a stationary power plant rather then car or truck that was run at a set speed? Most would have been direct drive, bypassing most of the transmission functions, so would have just needed oil enough in that area to keep the main shaft and clutch lubed. Oil could have been added at the front till it came out the petcock.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup


Dan McEachern
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:08 am
First Name: DAN
Last Name: MCEACHERN
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: too many. '14 touring, 2 depot hacks, 2 speedsters
Location: ALAMEDA,CA,USA

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by Dan McEachern » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:27 pm

What Kerry said. The rings will never be able to control the oil with it that high- 3/8" above the inspection plate is almost too high.
Also, welding will shrink the metal in that area and warp the pan, so make sure the pan get checked on a jig.


John kuehn
Posts: 3907
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by John kuehn » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:40 pm

Call the owner to ask if the dam was recently added. Looks to me it hasn’t been in there to long going by the looks of the weld area.
If it’s just going to be a pretty much stock engine I would ask if it could be removed.
Maybe some body had the idea the front main would have more oil if it didn’t run back as fast going up hills. To many Model T’s have done without it and done OK.


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6431
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:26 pm

If it was my pan, I'd remove it. If it was a customer's pan, I would not proceed with work until allowed to remove it. No one in their right mind would want to warantee whatever work was done. I'm not sure it would even run for any length of time. It is absolutely remarkable to me the level of creative stupidity some people have at their disposal.
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured


OilyBill
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:51 pm
First Name: William
Last Name: May
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Runabout
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by OilyBill » Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:10 pm

Kerry:
What is a "horseshoe"? Where are they located? How high are they? Is there a horseshoe in the pics?
Just trying to get a grasp of how high the oil level is supposed to be on a stock pan.
Thanks!

User avatar

John Warren
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Warren
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Roadster, 25 Pickup , 26 Canadian Touring , and a 24-28 TA race car
Location: Henderson, Nevada

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by John Warren » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:09 pm

The only thing that the pan may be good for is a wheely clown car. Like said it will retain way too much oil. You would be lucky if it would run much more than an idle because of the crankshaft running in oil. Many problems will arise. Billy, the horse shoe/s are the u shaped metal pieces that the inspection cover bolts are threaded into. No not shown but sits just over the bolt holes shown.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P


Kerry
Posts: 1297
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:42 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: van Ekeren
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 touring, 1916 pick-up, 1924 coupe, 1926 touring, 1927 touring
Location: Rosedale Vic Australia

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by Kerry » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:24 pm

Bill, John covered it. the threaded plates that hold on the dipper plate.
000_0600 (1).JPG

Ford changing to a 4 dipper in 1924 was a good indication that the 3 dipper was not a perfect design.
This one is in my stock pile of parts, a 3 dipper that has been converted to 4.
000_0600 (1).JPG


Kerry
Posts: 1297
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:42 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: van Ekeren
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 touring, 1916 pick-up, 1924 coupe, 1926 touring, 1927 touring
Location: Rosedale Vic Australia

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by Kerry » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:26 pm

Sorry doubled up on photo :(
000_0599.JPG


OilyBill
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:51 pm
First Name: William
Last Name: May
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Runabout
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Oillevel in Oilpan

Post by OilyBill » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:10 pm

John Warren wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:09 pm
The only thing that the pan may be good for is a wheely clown car. Like said it will retain way too much oil. You would be lucky if it would run much more than an idle because of the crankshaft running in oil. Many problems will arise. Billy, the horse shoe/s are the u shaped metal pieces that the inspection cover bolts are threaded into. No not shown but sits just over the bolt holes shown.
Thanks!

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic