Looking for a little help

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Topic author
Mountainrider
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:23 pm
First Name: Neil
Last Name: Haywood
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 roadster
Location: Stockbridge, MA

Looking for a little help

Post by Mountainrider » Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:38 pm

I’m looking for an experienced T guy in Western MA to take a ride with me in my 15. This has been my only T and have nothing to compare it to. Not sure if the drive train noise is normal or needs my attention. Everything seems to turn fine with out any binding or unusual noise when up on the jack stands. Definitely some small vibration when on the road.


Topic author
Mountainrider
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:23 pm
First Name: Neil
Last Name: Haywood
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 roadster
Location: Stockbridge, MA

Re: Looking for a little help

Post by Mountainrider » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:42 pm

I’ve been busy with other areas of the T I think I have forgot some simple maintenance. Took five full fills of the large grease cup to get some to squeeze out. When the temp cools down A little this evening I take her out for a run to see if that makes a difference.


Topic author
Mountainrider
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:23 pm
First Name: Neil
Last Name: Haywood
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 roadster
Location: Stockbridge, MA

Re: Looking for a little help

Post by Mountainrider » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:56 pm

The grease helped but there is something binding under load going uphills. I’ll order the Front and Rear axles book tomorrow and pull the rear ended before something goes bad.

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DanTreace
Posts: 3299
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Location: North Central FL
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Re: Looking for a little help

Post by DanTreace » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:07 am

Hope you could find some nearby T’er to visit, that would help.

For any driveline issue, begin at the rear wheels. Jack them both off the ground, pull in and out on the wheel checking for excess play, loose axle nut or from worn thrust washers. Then rotate a small bit and rock back and forth, large excursion could be ring / pinion issues. That first check may give you clues.

Pull the rear wheels with hub puller and check first the brake shoes, some can fracture and make drag, if good, then pull the rear outer Hyatt bearings and inspect, worn or cracked bearing or sleeve can cause drag.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Topic author
Mountainrider
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:23 pm
First Name: Neil
Last Name: Haywood
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 roadster
Location: Stockbridge, MA

Re: Looking for a little help

Post by Mountainrider » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:59 pm

I order the axel book today and I have the Ford Service Manual. I’ve also been doing a lot of forum searching. I did the outer axel bearings and seals two years ago. I’m pretty confident I can tackle this. 🤞


Topic author
Mountainrider
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:23 pm
First Name: Neil
Last Name: Haywood
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 roadster
Location: Stockbridge, MA

Re: Looking for a little help

Post by Mountainrider » Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:56 pm

Dodged the first bullet today. As soon as I jacked up the rear axle noticed the first problem. Spokes were all loose on the passenger side. After pulling the wheel found all the bolts loose and none of the nuts were peened Driver side all tight and peened . How tight do I tighten the nuts?

End play in both axles is less then a 1/16” and there seems to be almost no lash turning axle back and forth by hand. I do not have a full history of the car so I will be pulling apart. Can one tell by looking inside the differential with a camera if the bearing was done? Was hoping to wait until winter. Thoughts? Would still like to find someone to come by and give me some advice.

Update to post. Used a dial caliper on the axle end play. Around .030 both sides
Last edited by Mountainrider on Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DanTreace
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: Looking for a little help

Post by DanTreace » Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:21 pm

Good you found that loose spoke wheel, sometimes you will hear it clicking as you drive, those loose spokes. At the hub the bolts should be pulled tight by the nuts, but no so much you distort the outer hub plate, then stake the nuts inside the drum to keep them there. Old bolts can fracture if you tighten with a real strong arm. New bolts and nuts are always a good idea on a tired wheel, esp. if the bolts are stressed by being loose.

Those wheel hubs do the drive, and do the stopping too, so keep them in good shape.

No real way to know if new bronze thrusts are there, or if any other things are amiss in the drive line without taking it apart for safety inspection.

Took apart this one for clicking at the u-joint, after removing from the motor,. The Hyatt pinion bearing was busted, and that caused the sleeve to migrate down into the gear. Found the pinion gear loose on the driveshaft, and it moved both ways, with just finger twist, along with the pinion sleeve, note the excursion of that sleeve, from one side of the key way to the other :o
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The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Topic author
Mountainrider
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:23 pm
First Name: Neil
Last Name: Haywood
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 roadster
Location: Stockbridge, MA

Re: Looking for a little help

Post by Mountainrider » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:07 am

Got up early this morning and dropped the axel. Should all be apart soon.


Topic author
Mountainrider
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:23 pm
First Name: Neil
Last Name: Haywood
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 roadster
Location: Stockbridge, MA

Re: Looking for a little help

Post by Mountainrider » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:08 pm

Now I really confused. I have every thing disassembled and found all original Babbitt thrust washers. Well only one on the drivers side with some broken pieces off it. Found them in the oil. Passenger side only had two thrust plates and no washer. After removing axle and before disassemble I rechecked end play and drive lash. Almost no endplay and no lash. How can that be with a missing thrust washer? Well I glade I took it all apart. All other bearings, gears and other parts look great. U joint has no end play put a lot of side to side. Is that normal?
Last edited by Mountainrider on Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: Looking for a little help

Post by DanTreace » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:24 pm

Glad you took time to tear down, things will appear on inspection. Sometimes making the diff. move to detect thrust wear is hard to do without really yanking in and out on the wheels, with both off the ground. To do so needs safe jack stands.

Proper maintenance is open it up and have that look-see ;) Now you can complete the task with the club axle book.

The U-joint needs to be in great shape, along with the front bushing it rides on. The club book says the U-joint should not exceed 010"-.020" play in a yoke bearing. Best to replace with a better one, and if rivets are loose, you can't just peen them back tight, never works.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

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