MTFCA Forum

I'm hoping for some feed back on designing a single axle trailer for hauling my model T's. I know all the pro's & con's of single axle verses tandem. I have a nice18'tandem dovetail but it weighs almost twice what a T weighs and is a pain to park. Most of the tailermade trailers are built on a 60%40% axle spacing that seems to place alot of tongue weight on the tow vehicle towing a front engine auto. Has anyone tried a 50%50% or greater axle spacing and how did it workout? This would be a home built Model T or A trailer only & not used for anything else as I do have a trailer for everything else.
Thanks, Craig

Craig we made one years back from a 12’ Shasta pull behind camper chassis. It has Atwood hydraulic surge brakes.., works perfect plus the frame is low profile. Look for old screwed up rotted away at the top but good on the bottom.

Hope this Helps,

Hank

I would not haul anything of value on a single axle! Bud.

Why not Bud?

Allan from down under.

Bud I had a front blow out on a tandem axle, wiped out the rear wheel with it. Then all hell broke loose, took the dual fender and slammed it into the car I was hauling. The trailer tires were 10 ply Michelin's with 1,000 miles on them, no warning, no debris hit. Only had one spare and of course it was a holiday weekend. Single axle, low profile, surge brakes under 3,000 LBS Gross Tow weight, no problem. Just Sayin'.

Hank

Yes Bud I'm awhere of the issues with single axle trailers untill I bought the tandem 15 years ago I towed every thing on a single axle trailer. I have towed a T 1500 miles on a single axle trailer. Every race car & sand rail I'm just interested in wether anyone has tried moving the axle forward for load balanced and had any success or issues with doing so. I already have the parts to build the trailer and I'm going to. most of the T people I know have single axle trailers and only one I know that has had a issue was due to a tire blow out there are ways to correct that, besides keeping good tires on your trailer. Learned that years ago when I lost three tires on a haul ( all of wich where older than 5 years old even if they had 90% thread)
Thanks. Craig

Craig were we on the same road? VooDoo Highway?

Craig, probably a 50/50 spacing would work well. If you find the balance point of your model T, it would probably help you make your decision. You already know what happens when you don't have enough tongue weight. Two jacks would probably answer your questions. I think a light weight trailer would be great. Put good car tires on it, trailer tires suck,!

Craig, I wouldn't set up a trailer with a 50-50 weight distribution. There is a reason that 60-40 is used, you need to have some tongue weight for it to pull properly. At 50-50, the trailer will try to beat itself to death. I once pulled a portable welder that was set up 50-50 with a ton truck for a contractor I was working for. Went about twenty miles or so until the bumper mounted hitch removed itself from the truck. I like to have around 2 to 3 hundred lbs. or so on the tongue. I'm sure others will chime in here too. Dave

Craig,

Good Point by others, If you need photos of mine just let me know. I believe ours has the 60/40, plus loading the T front first, handles like it is not even there.

Hank

I watched this very ineresting demonstration on tongue weight a few years ago. Some people on the form might find it interesting also.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4jk9H5AB4lM

Old saying. Don't let the tail wag the dog. I can't be the only guy that remembers that!
You definitely need to have some tounge weight.

Whatever the length of the trailer,put the axle 1 inch back from center of trailer for every foot of length.
14 foot, 14 inches back from center.
This trailer pulls like a dream,hauls my T well.
I built it myself and could post some closeups if needed.
The spring assist for the gate lift,works just about 2 well,I have to hold the ramp back a bit to keep it from slamming.

couple more

The brackets that hold the ramp shut,I designed them so that a light spring holds them UP to act as guides when loading the T and also it keeps me from bending over to pick them up to latch the tailgate.

OK maybe I'm not making my self clear. I would never build a trailer with no tongue weight. I tow with a 1500 truck. Yes I know thats on the light side. I let the 1 ton go years ago because I cant afford to drive it 10,000 miles a year to & from work @ 6 mph and still aford to have model T's My choice I know. I know that 150lb. tongue weight on a empty trailer is OK and if you mount the winch, battery, spare tire, jack & tool box on the tongue you should have that. last time I weighed my car it was 60% wieght on the front axle so I'm thinking this is OK. almost all of the trailers I have ever pulled where way over weight on the tongue and that can be as much an issue as to little. If it is this much of a issue it should not be that hard to build a trailer with a adjustable axle & fenders to take care of the problem. Should have thought of that in the first place. Thanks for all the help I'll break out the drawing board and get started on that, Thanks. Craig

One thing I learned from an old trailer builder was to lead the right side (ditch side) axle by about 1/4 to 3/8 inch.
He believed it would help to compensate for the crown in the road.
I have built two this way and they track very well.
Harry

Mack your post came as I was in the last one. Ive seen your trailer before & the one view it looks almost centered. I have a 16' utility trailer that I towed my T on once that has the axle pretty far back. with the T loaded I had about 600 lb. of tongue weight, towed terrible. Nice set up you have there. I like the long tongue tube.....Larry thats something I forgot about. I built a race car trailer30 years ago and mounted the spare tire on a spindle and set it so it would steer the trailer to the right if it came off so as not to go into oncoming traffic. Had to go on that call once was not good, someone lost a trailer and it hit a car head on.

I've towed my Ts in both 16 & now currently a 20 foot tandem trailer. No problems with either. Always used at least a
friction anti-sway bar on both. I feel those are a must. I also have, but seldom use, a load-equalizing hitch with my '20 foot trailer.
Frankly with the extra trailer length, I can plunk my Ts in "just the right spot" so as to have just enough tongue weight and
really don't need the equalizer. I mark the location on the floor so the car is always in the same spot. Trails like a dream. Just play around with where you need to put the car in the trailer, measure
the difference of your tow vehicles front wheel well height both empty and loaded, shoot for about a 3/4 inch "rise" (maximum) in the fender. Just make sure you measure it at the exact same spot!! LOL. It will trail fine with that.

You need to remember that your trailer may not always have a load on it so you would need some tongue weight when empty also are you going to put a tool box up front and how much weight will that carry, better to have a little to much than not enough, you can always move your car back a little if you find you have to much tongue weight.

Good advice about building trailers here. The best advice comes from those that have had problems or even accidents. No disrespect for those that say they have pulled for thousands of miles with no problem, but I learn more from those that have had close calls and issues. You are not building the trailer for the way you drive, but for the idiot that you will meet on the road.

The extra money you might consider for tandem axles, better tires, brakes, are all a lot cheaper than that hospital bill or the funeral parlor.

Craig
Tongue weight should be between 10-15 percent of gross trailer weight.
As you know I had a little trouble getting home from the White Fish Tour awhile back when the toy box lost water from the holding tank and the tongue lightened up
Bryce

Craig,

I have seen some really nice aluminum trailers for hauling cars. I wish I could afford one. My camper has an aluminum frame and it is very light for the size. Your 1500 should pull a trailer with a Model T OK. My Frontier pulled my utility trailer, like the green one that tdump showed, with my 15 touring car on it. It pulled OK over some mountains. I take it easy while pulling, 60 mph, and use the gears going down a grade. I follow the 60/40 rule for weight distribution. I have to use some extensions on the tailgate latches for the utility trailer to fit the Model T on it. I bought some really good radial tires and care a spare. It is single axle. I keep the bearing greased and the tires at the recommended pressure.

Neil

One reason about the single axle is i wan"t a trailer that will do any job i put at it! I have no use for more than one trailer. Never let the tail wag the dog!!! Bud.

Thanks guys this gives me lots of food for thought. A couple of questions have come to mind, I have not seen very many single axle trailers with brakes and I consider brakes a must, any thoughts on that and is there any ideas on the use of car tires I have always been under the impresion they are a bozo no no that they are not desgned to be pulled or loaded that way? I replace my trailer tires every 5 years but the last set I bought were 14 months old when installed one of them separated sitting empty out in the pasture so Im looking for tires now. Bud as far as keeping only one trailer I have a hard time keeping one, somebody is always barrowing them. Maybe they will put tires on them. I once loaned the tailer and my tractor to the Ex. and it came back with new tires on it, not sure why and she didnt want to talk about it. She just told me to not look a gift horse in the mouth.
Thanks agin

Do you know much about physics, math, etc? If so, it's a pretty simple engineering problem to figure out...you need to know the length of the car, the weight at each end. You need to know how much your trailer will weigh, per foot (including all the stuff that will be on it, including ramp(s), tool box, tongue, etc). Make a scale drawing, as a "free body diagram", and figure out where the trailer axle needs to be to get 10-15% tongue weight when empty, and then figure out where the car needs to be located on the trailer, to keep the tong weight at 10-15% with the car on it. Build the trailer to allow the car's front wheels to go forward that far, and stop.

If you don't know how to do the math, or don't understand the physics concepts, then start by figuring out what the weight numbers will be, and we can help you with the design. It's a statics problem...the sum of the moments, about any point, equals zero.

Craig I have found out the hard way and believe others have too that "trailer tires" are not regulated like passenger car and truck tires. So I spent more money for "10 ply truck tires" and have excellent luck, wear, and happy pixies.

Hank

Craig,

Northern Tool sells trailer brake add on's. So if you buy or make a trailer without brakes you can add them later. Depending on your state, legally you will need trailer brakes if the weight of the trailer and load is over a certain amount.

Neil

I build my own trailers, and some for others. They have full floors to make them more useful. The 12' bed is 3 sheets of steel with the sides and railing along the top folded in each sheet and the three are seam welded to make the whole just one piece. This in turn is welded to an RHS perimeter frame, with an extra rail where the loaded vehicle sits. The drawbar is hinged just in front of the springs so I can tilt the bed and drive the T on without having to carry ramps. The springs/3" dropped electric brake axle assembly are fitted to an angle iron frame on each side. This and the bed frame are drilled at 2" intervals to allow the axle assembly to be adjusted fore and aft depending on the load. That said, setting it 2" behind centre initially has meant that I have never adjusted mine further.
There is a removable, but otherwise fixed rail across the front, up to which I drive the T. This makes it easy to tie down the T with front tyres held against the rail, rather than pulling on the axle/wishbone/frame.
With the axle behind centre, a toolbox and trailer spare on the drawbar, a hand winch on the front of the trailer bed, and the heavy end of the T at the front, there is ample weight on the hitch. With 14" x 8ply light truck tyres, it tows as though it isn't there.
For those concerned with blowouts/loss of control, I have had to incidents. With almost a ton of T parts and tools on board, a kerbside tyre blew at highway speeds and my wife hardly noticed. We just rolled to a stop, fitted the spare and continued our journey. The second occurred in Queensland on my way to the last National Rally, some 2000km from home. Inland Queensland two lane roads are not the best. Travelling a bit under the limit, I had an alloy rim split and by the time I could pull off the road to fix it, the tyre was toast too. The biggest hit was to my wallet, having to buy a new tyre and rim while there were two spare rims at home.
One real benefit is the manoeuvrability of 2 wheel trailers. They are much more responsive when backing up. In my flat yard, I can wheel it around on the jockey wheel and turn it on the spot.

Allan from down under.

I had bought a used utility trailer to haul a mustang shell.
It is single axle. Since then I haul the T on it.
The front rails are great to run the T up to. The straps go from the front axle to the tong of the trailer.
The rear axle get a cross strap tie down. Then I run a strap from the back axle to the tong.
This configuration seem to keep the T in place with undo stress on the suspension.

The utility trailer has served me well. Only once did I have to leave it to get a new tire.
The spare was in the other car.

A couple of thoughts here. I had a 70's era 18 foot boat on a single axle trailer with no brakes that weighed about 3600 lbs. Towing it behind my 1 ton pickup was never an issue, but when I hooked it to the back of the wife's Astro van (rated to tow 6000 lbs but with load leveling and brakes) it was a different story. Load levelers are usually not necessary on boat trailers and I didn't need them in this case either, but the van's brakes and the van's weight were not up to the task of stopping the additional 3600 lbs. Stopping distance was greatly increased and when I tried to stop at a quickly changing light, the boat just pushed me halfway through the intersection. We later upgraded to a bigger 5000 lbs boat on a tandem trailer with brakes and the van towed and stopped beautifully. I definitely recommend brakes which also allows you to use a breakaway system in case the trailer or hitch separate from the vehicle. Brakes and breakaway systems are required most everywhere.

Boat trailers do not make good car haulers or utility trailers because the axles are mounted too far toward the rear. This is because most of the boat's weight (the engine and drive) is in the very back of the boat. The axle needs to be moved forward for other uses. However, that 70's boat trailer I had utilized an adjustable suspension which you could duplicate to locate your axle in the best location for your particular use. That particular boat hull was available with an outboard engine or a four, six, or eight cylinder inboard/outboard from several different manufacturers so the weight and the center of the weight varied, but the same trailer was used for all of them. The springs and axle were mounted to an angle iron cradle that could be slid along the trailer frame channels so that the weight could be balanced for proper towing. It was then clamped in place with u-bolts.

Proper tongue weight is important. Too much lightens the steering and the tail does wag the dog. The extra weight pushing down on the hitch increases during stopping and lightens the front even more, and it's the front brakes that do most of the stopping and all of the steering. Too little tongue weight lifts the hitch especially during braking as the tow vehicles nose dives and rear lifts. The trailer will tend to lift the rear of the tow vehicle even more lightening the rear axle and decreasing the rear traction and braking effort.Either of these situations can contribute to jack-knifing. The tow vehicles tow ball should be just slightly lower than the trailer coupler when the trailer is loaded and coupled (trailer just slightly "nose down") The slightly "nose down" stance combined with the minimum 10% tongue weight assures proper towing and braking. Did you ever see a 4X4 towing a trailer that was way "nose high" and swaying side to side?

I own a 16 foot home made car trailer that was originally a travel trailer. It has tandem axles mounted very nearly centered 50/50. I can raise the tongue jack (trailer unloaded) and after dropping about 5-6 inches the jack comes off the ground. When I load my 12 foot long touring in the trailer engine forward, I end up with a couple hundred pounds tongue weight and it tows very nicely behind my truck. However when I load my 14 foot long Martin-Parry express truck which is built in a stock T car chassis but has about two feet rear overhang and a heavier wood body, the trailer is just about neutral 50/50 and I can feel the trailer lifting the rear of the truck on bumps and bounces. I need to move my wheel-stops ahead to shift the weight forward and restore the tongue weight.

I didn't need to see the video that Chris posted to know about too much weight on the rear of a trailer. Years ago we raced stock cars; one night we wrecked pretty good. The track tow truck loaded the car with the front end (and the engine) to the rear of the trailer as the race car wouldn't roll. On the trip home I lost it. It did precisely what the Mustang did in the video. I wound up facing the opposite direction in the center strip of what is now I-95 in Dedham, MA. There was a state trooper following me and he praised me for not flipping it. He then followed me with his cruiser lit up until we were able (at about 30 MPH) to reach our exit about five miles from the incident. I will never tow any trailer with a rear CG on a highway again. FWIW: We had the car back at the track a week later.

I have always wanted to build a trailer using torsion axles but never have.
This came up on a youtube ad.
Not torsion but "no axle". Not so sure I am ready to jump on this tech yet.
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Leaf-S ... gLyufD_BwE

Mack, I'll have to agree with you. Although I haven't seen this setup in person, it looks to me that there will be a LOT of twisting type of stress on those components without an axle. Myself, I can't see any advantage there, other than lightening your wallet. Maybe I'm missing something, which is QUITE possible! Dave