Model T Chassis or Frame Number

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J1MGOLDEN
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Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by J1MGOLDEN » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:06 pm

I recently purchased a 1926 Touring at a Delaware estate sale.

While I got a copy of the original 1947 Tennessee title and several registrations between 1947 and 1953 with the correct Engine Serial Number, the Delaware title has that number removed and an Washington DC DMV 2112 Number inserted in the place for a serial number.

The DC title was issued about 1963 and about 1994, the owner moved to Delaware. The assigned Delaware title was also DMV2112, which has no relevance at all there, but I did find an oval tag, with that number on it, attached to the inner lower firewall, with only one screw.

This week, I have an appointment with the Delaware State Police Inspection Station to have the Frame Number verified.

I already cleaned off that area to bare metal and there is no number on the passenger side, which I told the officer.

He told me all Fords built after 1909 had a frame number, I asked who told him that and he said go to the Internet.

I am normally quite good at finding things on the Internet, but have not found his reference.

Does anyone know of a good source for data on Model T Frame or Chassis information.

Bruce McCalley appear to have nothing!

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Ruxstel24
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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by Ruxstel24 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:15 pm

October 25 was the start of frame numbers, as I understand.
Not all 26 models will have one...
Good luck with the registration process.

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AndreFordT
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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by AndreFordT » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:16 pm

MTFCA Encyclopedia, go frame(chassis); frame numbers.
First was done on 12th oh December 1925 number was 12,861,044

Andre

Belgium

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Steve Jelf
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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by Steve Jelf » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:16 pm

The officer is mistaken. Before the date Andre listed, 12th of December, 1925 (number 12,861,044) there was no Model T chassis number. The engine serial number was used for identification to register a car. If the officer wants internet confirmation, show him this excerpt from the Model T Encyclopedia.

Chassis Numbers.jpg
Chassis Numbers.jpg (36.7 KiB) Viewed 2957 times

One reason you haven't found the engine number stamped on your frame could be that the car was made before December 12. The 1926 model year begins with August. If the car was made December 12 or later, look on the left frame rail. Occasionally the number was stamped on that side.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:08 pm

There were only a couple states that cared where (or in some cases even whether) the serial number was. Many pre-model T automobiles (including Fords) had the serial number stamped onto the flywheel. A lot of automobile manufacturers did put serial numbers on the frame, however also a lot did not. There was no real industry standardization until about 1930.
Califunny was one of the few states that wanted ALL cars to have their serial number on the frame. Beginning in the very early '20s, they encouraged anyone replacing the engine in their Ford to have the serial number moved onto the frame. However, even there, there is NO standard location for that number to be put. In this state, I have owned a few cars and loose frames with added serial numbers, and seen a few more at swap meets.

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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by DanTreace » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:13 pm

And those chassis numbers only on the Improved Car (1926 model year) are just replication of the 'real' vehicle identification number, namely the engine motor / car serial number.


Scan0395.JPG
Scan0395.JPG (48.48 KiB) Viewed 2930 times
Ref. Ford Service Bulletin, April 1, 1919.

FYI, on the Improved Car, sometimes that replication number is found on the driver's top frame rail as alternate location from the more normal passenger side.

Collage8.jpg
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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by Altair » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:40 pm

On some of the pre improved cars there was letters and numbers stamped on the wood seat frames. When I took my 1926 touring to the Motor Vehicle Branch to get registered I towed it because it had no engine, the only readable number we could find was a four digit number stamped on the firewall so we used that, I guess it is the body number. I wasn't aware of the number on the frame until some time later (it is there).

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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:02 pm

I wasn't aware of the number on the frame until some time later (it is there).
In some jurisdictions it's easy to get a registration with that kind of error corrected. I don't know how BC is, but I'd look into it.
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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by Trentb » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:25 pm

I once had the opportunity to inspect the frame number on a 1927 touring. The first two digits were 1 and 5, followed by 6 zeros. We were checking to see if the frame number and engine number matched. 🙂

(They did.)

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess


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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:03 pm

:lol: Trent B, If anyone else made a claim like that I do not think I would believe them. But You? I know it is true. :lol:


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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by Altair » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:59 pm

920x920.jpg
is this your car?


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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by Enos » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:16 am

This 27 Roadster I have now has a Canadian registration number. Is there a data base to find info on the Canadian cars? Thanks

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John Warren
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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by John Warren » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:42 am

I had a similar problem with my Canadian 26 touring car. It was registered with a fictitious No MT9999. I just assuming that it was Model T 9999. The engine had been changed to a 1925. After talking to the boys on the forum, I looked on the frame , right hand side under the floor boards and there it was. So when going to register it here in Nevada, I was wanting the title to reflect the right number. Nevada DMV said that if Canada would sign off on it in writing, they would change it. I called Canadian DMV (if they call it that) and they said sure just bring it up so they could inspect it. #@&^**$#@%% I called ADOT DMV ( Arizona, we have a second house there) and told them my situation, they said bring it in and they would look at it. All went well, 20 minutes later I was walking out with title and registration in hand reflecting the proper numbers. :) It deffinately makes a difference where you are and who you talk to.
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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by DanTreace » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:43 am

Here is a chart that was placed on the Forum a few years ago with Canadian engine number sequence.

647709.jpg

and total car/truck production
410981.jpg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

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John Warren
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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by John Warren » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:53 am

Thanks Dan, You are probably one of the guys that helped me.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P


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Re: Model T Chassis or Frame Number

Post by Altair » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:15 pm

To clear some issues the Canadian Government does not register vehicles they deal with safety and standards, all vehicles in Canada would be registered in one of the respective provinces. If a registration is non-existent each motor vehicle branch in each province would have to be searched. It is however conceivable that a vehicle could be registered in two provinces even with all the checks and balances. Here in B.C. in the early days the MVB kept two or more files on the older cars and they were hard paper files and were therefore subject to going missing. My car was registered in the vintage file and I was notified that it was going to be amalgamated in to the general electronic file. Every few years they update their files and request confirmation that I am still the registered owner. My car came from Saskatchewan originally and it may have or may not have been registered there. A search request returned negative and the B.C. Motor Vehicle Branch was satisfied with that. With electronic filing methods today search methods are much more efficient. When a vehicle is registered in any province it remains registered for ever even if it is not used, except if it is destroyed or transferred. The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia which is a Government Corporation has access to all the other provincial vehicle registration data bases. There are hundreds of insurance agents throughout the province that only deal with straight forward general issues, they do not have access to the Corporations data base. Therefore to check a Canadian registration each province would have to be searched or if you are lucky and you get the right person he/she may do it for you from one station. The Canadian Government will not do this for you only the Provincial Governments.

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