Old Time Speedster

[Original Smith]

Here is a photo that a friend got off the AACA forum. My guess because of the logo on the gas tank, it was probably owned by a dealer.

[Quickm007]

That’s a nice one.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Hey, I posted that over there! I have had it on my computer for several years, but probably stole it from here?
I made a comment over there that I am bothered by this photograph. It mostly looks so right, it must be a brass era photo, right? But a couple things strike me as odd. Yes wire wheels were available for Fords (or anything else!) at the time, but they were rarely actually used on brass era model Ts. I have many times snidely remarked that probably more model Ts have wire wheels today than ever did during the brass era. However, as unusual as it may have been, it was done some.
Another unusual item is the friction shock absorbers on the front end. Again, they were around, but that size was not common that early.
Larry mentioned the "Ford pyramid" logo. I had the same thought. It could indicate a model T dealer. The logo was only used much for a couple years, although it continued to show up occasionally for several years thereafter.
The headlamps look odd. I am fairly sure they are after-market electrics. The lenses look odd, maybe due to the positioning of the reflector?
Last but not least. I can't see the Motometer well enough. But it appears to be a later style.
All of those things are very popular with restorers and speedster re-creators, but were not common during the brass era on model Ts, speedster or otherwise. Just bothers me a bit.

There have always been people that liked to create photographs that appear much older than they are. I have even played with that a bit. Most of the time, I can spot them. Some detail, maybe in the background? Sometimes even in the lensing of the camera. Earlier cameras do not focus quite the same as modern cameras. The depth-of-field is different. The reactions on the photo paper are different. Usually there is something. But on this one? I haven't found anything I could really put my finger on.

[Allan]

When does a speedster become a special bodied roadster? There is so much more to that car than is usual speedster fare, that I wonder if it is not a special roadster from an aftermarket body builder. It just appears to be a complete design package, top and all. Then again, it was probably marketed as a speedster anyway. It certainly is a really neat presentation without the usual home built nuances seen on most speedsters.

Allan fro down under.

[Dollisdad]

Looks like a Torpedo, where they traded out the radiator for a Livingston and replaced the body with an aftermarket speedster body complete with top and roll down isinglass windshield. Add a set of Dayton or Pasco wires and your set. It appears to have a stock Torpedo steering column at the correct angle as well. Would be a fairly easy car to reconstruct. Anybody?

[Susanne]

Contrasted to a gow job, not to be confused with the ever-popular rat rod...

IIRC Edsel Ford had a roadster something simlar to the one pictured - lower, leaner, sportier, and more complete. There were (and are) period correct race cars as well - Cars that have (or could have been) run on an open track in competition of it's brethren back when these cars were new. Speedsters for me were more like lower dollar (bot no less competitive) attempts to do the same - Take Uncle Jake's touring car, strip the parts, fit some go-fast on it, and tear up the local competition - and maybe take on one of those Frontenac specials and beat the pants off him.

Keep in mind that outting a new (and far more stylish) body on that old, stodgy-looking farmer's car was apparently economically feasable both for the manufacturers of such bodies and for the owners of these cars who, making their killings in the market could go from being Mrs. Grundy's Sweeny to the Cats Pajamas..., ya know, the real sardine's whiskers, not some Rube without no lettuce in his sandwich!

Think of all the hot cars - from Ferarris to Porsches to you name it, that were really re-bodied VW's. Same same.

[ModelTSpeedster]

It certainly appears to be an original sport T from the period, as the photo looks like it was copied from an old photo album. Additionally, I found a posting in "The Old Motor" from Herb Iffrig, which seems to be further proof that it was built back in the day.
There were dozens of manufacturers who offered complete bodies and accessories in the day to complete such a fine looking speedster. And as we know, the Model T created a world of opportunities for making a buck from anything and everything related to the Model T, and it is still true today!
https://theoldmotor.com/?p=129106
RB

[Adam]

Notice that the cars in both those pictures have the same plate. (Same car, maybe even same day)

[Rob]

Wayne, thank you for posting, and I don’t wish to contradict....... However, while researching other early Ford accessories (even after market accessories were advertised for the Ford Model B were marketed in 1906 and 07), it seems this style shocks were available for Fords, as well as other small cars, early on. Below is an add for Traufuant-Hartford shocks from 1912. Earlier adds advertised Hartford Junerette shocks for cars less than 1200 lbs, but I couldn’t find an add that listed Ford by name. I left the add below the Hartford Ad too. I found it interesting magnetos were still advertised for Ford models N, R and S as late as 1912 (and still produced Maxwell and REO 2 cyl cars, but listing Ford first).

[TRDxB2]

The link to the article in the "the Old Motor" references it as a Torpedo and that the licenses plate is "a 1914 Indiana M license plate, which usually indicates that it is a manufactures plate; the winged pyramid on the ends of the gas tank with the Ford logo also may point to some type of involvement by Ford." Perhaps this was a prototype? Wondering if anyone can recognize the gazebo or bandshell in the one photograph, may be a hint to further info

[Wayne Sheldon]

This is wonderful! I did not recall the "Old Motor" posting, although I probably did see it six years ago. Like so many old pictures on the internet, I knew I had seen the photo before a few times. I began saving good pictures I liked a few years ago, in part to share from time to time in appropriate discussions. In part for my own use to study details when I want to know something. Somewhere along the line I found and saved the one posted at the top of this thread. Now I will need to add the other shot of the same car.
The body looks professionally done, but is not a Ford torpedo body, either 1911 or '12. The fenders might be 1911 torpedo fenders, or not. Similar fenders were marketed after-market for Fords about that time. I also saw the "M" on the license plate. As "speedsters" go, this one must be one of the finest creations on a Ford chassis of that short ('12 to '15ish) era. It has so many items rarely seen on model T speedsters for that time. All of it top-of-the-line and so very nicely finished. I suspect it may have been built by the company that manufactured the body and likely other components like the top and maybe fenders, hence the license plate. I wonder if they may have offered completed cars like this? Several of the better known speedster kit companies did so later. Frontenac, Morton and Brett, Speedway, Laurel all offered completed "turn-key" cars. I am sure a lot of smaller companies did as well, I know Champion (builders of the body on the boat-tail roadster I had thirty years ago) did.

Rob, No contradiction here as far as I am concerned. I was not certain in any sense about how early the smaller friction shocks were being sold here. Friction shocks were used on a good number of larger American cars well before 1910 (I think I have seen about 1906, and I seem to recall a 1904?), and were used heavily in Europe where horsepower taxation made smaller cars more popular with even people of means. The smaller friction shocks were used on a fair number of cars there. I had not noticed any significant indications of smaller friction shocks in this country that early. Thank you for that! I am always still trying to learn more details about the cars I love.
I am saddened by the cancellation of the OCF this year. But with all going on in the world right now, I suspect that was the right thing to do. Liability reasons if not actual disease spread.
How is that 300 cid doing?

[ModelTSpeedster]

The Ford winged pyramid logo on the car in this discussion presents another interesting topic. Several years ago I bought a heavy brass winged pyramid and attached it to the dash of my speedster. The question, is it an early piece or something produced relatively recently. Anyone have thoughts as to its age? The black outlined design and Ford logo are etched into the brass and painted.
RB

[Wayne Sheldon]

I would think it is fairly recent. I know some were made like that back in the 1960s.

[Rob]

Wayne,
It’s almost back together. Hopefully in the next week or two. It looks good, and hopefully will be better than ever. Thank you for asking. We had our second article in the other club magazine on the Ford specials, and I’ll post it at the end of the month. Hope all is well there,
Rob

[2nighthawks]

Rob - Absolutely LOVE the full size front and back cover photos on the mag!

[Rob]

Harold, thanks. Editor Natalie chose those pics, published courtesy of The Henry Ford. I’ve seen the racer up close, and it is a piece of art! Light, efficiently built, and big block Chebby sized motor. It beat the fastest racer in the world head to head. Wish it were on display at THF.