Volvo overdrive ?

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Mark Gregush
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Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:29 am

I am rebuilding a rear end that will have a Volvo overdrive installed. Great except, the person that started the project is not in the picture. Tim bought this setup that was going to be use with extended frame, but his plans are to use with 26/27 coupe body and keep stock length. As it is now it's too long. Does any one know who may have made this? I email Kevin P and he does not know. If I can't find out who then I am going to fit the housings together and hope to take some off the front and hope I can get everything to line up. This is going behind a pretty hot T engine with disk brakes and safety hubs. The bottom photo gives and idea how much needs to come off to make work as we need it.
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I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
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KWTownsend
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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by KWTownsend » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:54 am

Mark,
You might check with Ted VanBeek. I think he knows something about this modification.
Keith


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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by D Stroud » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:06 am

Mark, I can almost guarantee you that welded drive shaft will fail, if not sooner, then later. Not a good idea. Why not use a period three speed auxiliary transmission or a Layne Warford? I think you are going to open a big can of worms with that setup. :( JMHO Dave
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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:46 am

Thank you Keith and Dave, I am a kinda on that same page re the Layne.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by George House » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:20 am

Install the Volvo OD. Then if you think you still have a Model T, you’ll only be fooling yourself. Go with KC Warford...
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people 🤪

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:50 am

Installing the KC Warford in my OP would be no different then the Volvo. Both are modern. If you read, this is going to have a hot engine and I don't mean just a HC head. :D Think speedster but with 26 coupe body on it so well past being a stock T.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Bill Dizer » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:17 pm

Is that a J-type Laycock overdrive? If so, it has its own oil pump to engage the od, and it takes more rpm on the input to run the pressure up to work than the average model T uses. The oil is shared with the transmission on most uses, and is cooled some as well. My triumph sports cars run that type OD, and the OD clutches don't like low rpm, or hot oil.

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:30 pm

Bill I don't know. If there is some markings I can find, what would they be? Or would more photos help? I can post more photos later.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by ChrisB » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:35 pm

I have one of these in my 26 Touring, it has been in there for over 10 years no problems.

Yes it is a Laycock type J found in Volvos and some British cars.

They were made by a couple of guys in California, sorry I cannot remember their names, I will try and find the receipt.

If I remember they were always behind in delivery and hard to get ahold of.

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by ChrisB » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:48 pm

A quick search of the archives found this:

I don't know a lot of machinists, but Mickey Gustafson of Bakersfield Volvo overdrive fame is one of the best.

from here: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1219536697

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by ChrisB » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:50 pm

A picture of the setup from my car a little way down in this post here:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/25 ... 1350666140
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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by modeltbarn » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:15 pm

I know this was mentioned above, but that is a terrible weld. If you use this it needs to be redone.


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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Mike Lebsack-Iowa » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:13 pm

I have one the Volvo Laycock overdrives coupled with a Ruckstell. It was built but Rick and Rick in California. The guys were at Bakersfield last year. I spoke with the nice gentleman and he indicated that he could still produce one if I could find the Volvo overdrive unit which he indicated is getting difficult to find. I have a T with a Layne Warford and I have one with a Volvo OD and Ruckstell. They are both great and I like them both. Enjoy either. Mike


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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Allan » Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:18 am

My sense of aesthetics is offended by the cobbled together look of the welded up bracketry required to mount that thing. It looks pig ugly to me.
I would much rather a KC Warford, not only because it looks like it 'belongs', but it offers far more in practical usage. I have no idea of the cost comparison though.

Allan from down under.

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Susanne » Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:29 am

So how exactly does the unit work? Mechanical, runs off oil pressure, electromechanical solenoid, pixie dust, or ?

And what kind of overdrive ratio does it give?

Darn this curiosity! :lol:

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:46 am

If you open the links above there is a lot of info other then that I really don't have a lot of info. I have seen the same modifications/brackets etc when I started looking to see if I could find who set this one up, used on others including Model A. So pretty darn sure it's not a home made conversion. It uses a solenoid from what I can see and understand so far.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Allan » Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:56 am

The solenoid controls a plunger which is used to direct hydraulic oil under pressure to actuate the overdrive gearing, so you need an oil pump as well as an electrical connection. Give me a KC Warford stick shift any day. Simple, strong easy to operate and giving more gears to play with.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by jmemjr » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:01 am

Bill Chalmers from Canada made some as well as my father. It is a really cool setup and my father enjoyed engineering the heck out of it. Everyone enjoys their car’s differently.

If anyone has a question I can put you in touch with My Dad. He is 85 and not in the forum.

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by ChrisB » Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:08 pm

Allan wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:56 am
The solenoid controls a plunger which is used to direct hydraulic oil under pressure to actuate the overdrive gearing, so you need an oil pump as well as an electrical connection. Give me a KC Warford stick shift any day. Simple, strong easy to operate and giving more gears to play with.

Allan from down under.
It only needs an electrical connection, the hydraulics are handled inside the unit. There is also a reverse cutout switch that cuts the power when you use the reverse pedal, apparently they don't like to be operated in reverse.

Also even though they were made for 12 V mine works fine with 6 V.

Chris from up yonder
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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:48 pm

Thanks Chris and everyone else that has replied.
Going by the others I have seen so far that are put together and have same bracing other similar parts; I going with the person(s) that did this one knew what they were doing so while the welds don't look pretty on the outside, without x-raying, I think will be fine. Mostly why I asked this question is because I need to shorten it to fit in a standard T frame. I was hoping to come up with a name and phone number to contact to see what they would suggest or send parts to them for re-do to fit what we need. If I cut behind the case, needs to have the taper and bearing area redone but would have a straight shot on the tube, if I redo the front, because the tube is tapered might run into issues fitting the sections back together, one section diameter would be bigger then the other. :? This is not my car, so have to bounce all this off them. The KC would be fine but not my call. This is what happens when your 2 or 3 people down the line working on something. LOL
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup


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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Erik Barrett » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:07 pm

It looks like several Laycock overdrives made for me by Mickey and Rich in Bakersfield. I have never had a problem with any of them and they work great. When used in combination with a Ruckstell with a left land shifter it is the best setup I have ever used in a model T. Test drive a car equipped like this and you will not be ordering a Layne.
I’m not knocking the Layne. I have put a few of them in and they are an exceptional product, if a little pricey. I have also put Laycock overdrives by Mickey and Rich in my Buick and Dodge Brothers cars.

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:22 pm

Erik if you have their contact information could you PM me with it. What year Dodge do you have?
Thanks
Mark
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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1920 Dodge touring
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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by modeltbarn » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:35 pm

Mark; I'll drop this after this last comment..... as a certified welder there is no way in hell I'd accept that weld; it doesn't even have adequate (meaning full) reinforcement, which is one of the fundamental basics of welding. No quality professional welder would ever accept or provide a weld like that, but many shade tree welders would. It's your car and driveline. Hopefully you have adequate external brakes; I've experienced a broken drive line (split pinion, same result). It's not fun.


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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Jeff Hood » Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:02 pm

I've seen some pretty ugly cobbled together bracketry on many other auxiliary transmission installations too. Using an old Borg-Warner, Ford, Rambler, etc. overdrive also requires wiring, cables, shift levers, and home-made adaptations that are often complicated and ugly. I don't quite understand the comment that it would no longer be a Model T with this overdrive. How is this one any different from any other conversion with any other non-Ford, non-factory transmission. Even the "period correct" aftermarket transmissions detract from the "original Model T" in that sense. The Laycock/Volvo overdrive is simple, compact, and self-contained two-speed planetary transmission, only needing an electrical connection. A company called Gear Vendors bought the rights and patents and made some improvements to the original "J" type about 40 years ago and many thousands of units have been used on motorhomes, trucks, and race cars. Lots of information at gearvendors.com

I installed a "J" type Gear Vendors overdrive on my 85 Ford diesel Dually with 4.10 gears when it was new. It was rated at 20000 lbs GVW, gives 28% overdrive, and dropped my engine about 700 RPM. More important is that it can be used in any gear so now I have a six speed transmission. I have pulled my boats and trailers over many hills in "second overdrive" when second was just too low, and third too high. After 30 years and 225000 miles I replaced it with the new larger "P" type. These are rated up to 30000 lbs GVW and up to 2000 horsepower when used in drag racing.

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:04 pm

Gary, it is getting disk brakes.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup


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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Erik Barrett » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:20 pm

Mark, I sent a message. My Dodge is an early 1916.

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:53 am

Cool on the Dodge and thanks I sent a reply.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup


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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by D Stroud » Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:08 am

What I'm most concerned about, besides the bad idea of welding on a driveshaft in the first place, is a total lack of a radius on the weld on the shaft. The weld craters are even worse, the whole thing screams STRESS CRACK just waiting to happen. Myself, I wouldn't use that in a stock T, let alone a hot one. JMHO, YMMV. Dave
1925 mostly original coupe.

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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by CamMan » Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:28 am

I have worked with these overdrives some, since I have a Triumph with a Laycock A-type. I also have a J-type in my ABC speedster. Most used in Model A, T and early V8 are J-types which are readily available from Volvos of '80s and '90s. It works just like a Model T transmission, except rather than being activated by your foot, it is activated by hydraulic pressure. The J-type pumps up only when the switch is activated. There is no difficulty pumping one up at Model T speeds. The guys in Bakersfield are the best known builders of these units. They normally have a big backlog. Many others have also done them, so you never know. I believe Bob Mills in KC has worked with them, but haven't run into him for years. I have never done one, but I think some welding would be required on the driveshaft. Unless you want to cut your own splines, you would need to use the output shaft out of the Volvo transmission.

I don't want to get into the religious warfare, but I'll give you my reasoning. At first, I had an original Muncie in my ABC. The gear ratios in the original 3 speeds are usually far too wide. I used a 4:1 rear to get an overdrive of around 2.9:1, but this gave me a low of about 8:1, far too low to be useable since it almost replicates Model T low. Downshifting to low was difficult and I worried a lot about getting stuck in neutral. Although the Layne overdrive may look original, it is not. The Laycock is small and not visible except for the switch. I also installed a Ruckstell and used a 4:1 rear. The 8 combinations give some terrific gears. Two are too low to be useable. The other 6 give gears from 11:1 to 3.2:1 with no more than a 30% jump between any two gears.

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Mark Gregush
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Re: Volvo overdrive ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:27 am

I have talked to Rich in Bakersfield and sent him some photos waiting to hear back. He is shut down more or less because of C-19.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup

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