Please critique my 1916 Touring

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Jeff5015
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:20 pm
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Schroeder
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 Touring
Location: Pensacola FL
MTFCA Number: 50300
MTFCI Number: 87
Board Member Since: 2019

Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Jeff5015 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:12 pm

Hey guys,

I inherited my dad's 1916 Touring. I would like some of you to go over the pictures and tell me what's right, what's wrong and anything else you might add.

To begin with it is a 1916 (1222277), I have the original engine in my garage. It currently has a 1924 engine in it for ease of starting. It is 6 volt. I have changed out the spark plugs for modern ones because they all leaked. It runs well. I know I have a hot exhaust valve on number 3. (some may spot the paint coloration) I know the wheels and steering wheel came black from the factory.

There are more pictures on my google drive that have very high resolution. for instance, You can read the K-1 stamp on the speedometer.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Thanks in advance

Jeff
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1916 Touring

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Topic author
Jeff5015
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:20 pm
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Schroeder
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 Touring
Location: Pensacola FL
MTFCA Number: 50300
MTFCI Number: 87
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Jeff5015 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:13 pm

More pictures
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1916 Touring

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Jeff5015
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:20 pm
First Name: Jeff
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* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 Touring
Location: Pensacola FL
MTFCA Number: 50300
MTFCI Number: 87
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Jeff5015 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:16 pm

Engine area
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1916 Touring


Kerry
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Kerry » Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:26 pm

Very nice.
The only thing I'm seeing, the front hubs have been up graded to later ones, a change that I would leave as is, they are a stronger hub around the outer bearing.

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RajoRacer
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by RajoRacer » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:14 pm

That T presents itself very well !

One item I see is the generator brush cover - the gap where the retaining screw & nut is what should be straddling the cutout post - someone seems to have done a little handy grinding of the band for clearance !


EricMac
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by EricMac » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:15 pm

I am curious about your goal here. The car is obviously very nice but wondering if you are thinking of an upgrade for local or national level judging. There would be a significant difference there, both in terms of time and cost.
1913 Touring
1926 Fordor
1926 Touring
1927 Touring
Stynoski 2006, Nash, Franklin, Lincoln, Cadillac and Buick owner emeritus

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RajoRacer
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by RajoRacer » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:17 pm

The speedometer drive is "whonky" - it should be loosened up at the pinch point & rotated so the cable attachment point is pointing towards the rear of the car.

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George House
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by George House » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:53 pm

Beautiful anatomically correct touring. Only things I can add are super picky: the 4 manifold clamps on the ‘24 engine are the heavier ‘26-‘27 and installed upside down. And someone smarter than me on this Forum said Model T s never had brass top prop nuts. Also, the front top prop nut left side is missing....I said left side-not drivers side-just for you Allan
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people 🤪


Model T Mark
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Model T Mark » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:28 pm

Should it have man hole Oilers on the tie rod bolts and spindle bolts, steel ones?


Allan
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Allan » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:52 pm

Good one George. There can be no confusion with an international audience that way.
The only thing I could find, outside the 24 engine, is a common occurrence. The upholstery nails in the doors are way closer together than is usual. Restorers often do that. The usual gap between them is approximately 2 1/2".

Allan from down under.

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Jeff5015
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Jeff5015 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:55 pm

Thanks guys...

@ericmac, My only goal is to drive and enjoy while I am caretaker of this car.

@RajoRacer, Thank you! Should I replace the generator brush cover or is it only a judging thing? I can take a closeup of the speedometer gears and maybe you could annotate to show me what to do.

@George House, I can reinstall the manifold clamps right side up. I think the 'brass' top prop nuts are actually painted. We're talking about the nut on the top rod anchor point just above and behind the rear door upper hinge?

@Allen, Do you have a picture with scale of the upholstery nails? Do you know of a video showing how to properly raise the top?

@Model T Mark, Steel oilers are all I find on Lang's.

Thanks again!
1916 Touring

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Steve Jelf
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:33 pm

A lovely car, mostly correct as far as I can see. Exceptions are the "natural" wheels you noted, mostly a modern fad*, the step plates, and the modern hose clamps.

No manhole oilers are being made as far as I know, so my 1915 wears the brass twist oilers on the shackles and the "modern" flip tops elsewhere.

*All Ford wheels came from the factory painted body color until 1925 when varnished "natural" wheels became an option. I believe very few people ordered that option. Other than advertising, how many period photos show Fords actually wearing "natural" wheels? Mighty few, if any.
The inevitable often happens.
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1923 Touring


Allan
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Allan » Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:47 am

Jeff, the manifold clamps are on the correct way round for 1924, but they are 1925-7 items. The foot which rests on the manifolds is flat on each side, so the clamp can be installed either way, allowing the dealers to stock just the one part for any T. On the later cars, the manifold studs were shortened, [to save a cent or two?] and the new style clamps were installed In the opposite orientation to those on your car. These shorter studs had a rolled in ridge, up to which the studs were inserted in the block.

Regarding the upholstery nail spacing, in Bruce McCalley's book "Model T Ford" there are illustrations showing how it was done. They are not uniform, but generally there were 6-7 down each side and 5-6 across the top and bottom, the spacing often being somewhat random. There are clear photos on page 217 to show this.

Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.


Wayne Sheldon
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:04 am

Personally, I would not worry too much about anything on the engine as long as it is working well and safe. A wrong engine is a wrong engine. The wrong manifold clamps work fine either direction, and as long as the generator cover keeps most dirt and rocks out,? No big deal.
Generally, I think cars should have engines as close to correct as is reasonably possible. If the original engine is a viable option, it should be using it. But that can come later. Part of the problem is, that once the car and engine become separated, they tend to lose each other. It is easy enough to add the parts necessary to add a starter onto a pre-starter engine. The pan/lower crankcase is not so important. Later ones are stronger than the early narrow nose pans, and the difference isn't critical (although many people including me can spot them easily). Basically, the flywheel for the starter gear, the hogshead to hold the starter, and a battery added somewhere along with cabling and a high current switch and you are good to go. The earlier engine block with all its differences and the low head (your car is on the edge of whether it should have the early low or later high head), the most important pieces, can remain in use with the car. Model Ts do not use a lot of battery power. Many people over the years have toured with model Ts for many years by simply using a trickle charger to top off the battery every couple hundred miles. If the car runs well on its original timer and coils ignition, and the battery does go dead, one can still start and run the car to finish the day. Lights can either be setup to run on on the battery, or the magneto, and there is a way to setup the magneto to charge the battery if one is concerned about battery power.

Overall, that is a fine looking model T! Probably better than most. You should be able to get a lot of enjoyment from it without many changes. Be forewarned, model Ts can sometimes kick their caretakers where it hurts. They do break down, sometimes leave one stranded. In return, they can give their caretakers a personal connection to history, and culture, most people will never be able to know. They can be challenging. But they give people a sense of accomplishment most people never find. The journey becomes more important than the destination. Model T clubs that tour a lot have a way of showing you things in your own neighborhood that you didn't know existed. One of the best hobbies ever.

Drive carefully, and enjoy.


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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Norman Kling » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:48 am

The car looks beautiful! Most of us would be proud to own a car like that. If it runs as good as it looks, you have a very good T.
You need to make a choice at this time. Either choose a show car, or a driver. It is almost impossible to have both with the same car.
If you choose driver, just leave it as is and repair only those things which give you problems. If your choice is show car, then try to upgrade everything to the original standard. That would include replacing the fan belt with a leather belt.
Most people who see our T's know very little about them. I have had people ask if my car is a 46? Most people who look at the cars will think they look great and if you don't tell them what is not original, they will never know.
I found out many years ago that I would rather enjoy driving my cars and working on them myself, only getting professional work on the things I can't do personally, such as machine work. With a show car you will find that many, if not most winners will be cars which are professionally restored and trailered to the show. Some don't even have oil in them so they won't leak! Some winners even had the sand pits ground off the block and head and polished paint on the engine!
So the choice is yours to make. I personally try to keep my cars looking like Model T's and running in as good condition as I can get them and still run like a T. I just enjoy driving and seeing the other cars on tours. I only enter shows which do not have a fee to enter nor a prize for best car. I learned that back in 1960's when I drove a Model A from San Diego to San Francisco and we parked the cars at Golden Gate Park. All the cars which won prizes were local cars trailered in. This was a national tour of the Model A club, so many cars drove all the way across the country. There was a group which started at New York and picked up other cars as they crossed the country. The only car to win a prize which was not trailered in was for the longest distance driven. That car drove from Florida.
Norm


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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by John Codman » Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:56 pm

In response to Norman's post - the biggest car show around when I lived in Massachusetts had a single class for 1920-1930. There was always a Duesenberg, Packard, or Bugatti present, so it wasn't possible for a T to win. Most T owners kept the hood closed to indicate that the car wasn't to be judged.


Bruce Compton
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Bruce Compton » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:05 pm

Wow, what a beautiful car. The only thing I can see looking specifically at the two front wheel photos, and it may be the camera angle or my 78 year old eyes, is the lack of caster. If you are driving this car at speeds above 15 MPH, then all is well, if not there is a chance that the axle is in backwards or the spring perches are on the wrong side. I saw this once before on a 1913 Hershey show winner after the owner quietly told me that he couldn't handle the car at speeds above 10 MPH. Anyway lets hope it's the camera angle or my bad eyesight.

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Jeff5015
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:20 pm
First Name: Jeff
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* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 Touring
Location: Pensacola FL
MTFCA Number: 50300
MTFCI Number: 87
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Jeff5015 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:51 pm

It might be due to the wheels being turned to the left. It handles quite well at 35. So, I suppose it's OK.

Thanks for responding.
1916 Touring


Bruce Compton
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Re: Please critique my 1916 Touring

Post by Bruce Compton » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:24 pm

That's great Jeff. Beautiful car. Enjoy.

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