Thrust washer roller bearings?

[John kuehn]

Finally getting around to going through the differential in my 1919 Runabout.
Wondering how good are the thrust washer roller bearings that have been around for many years.
Yes I know the preferred original style brass thrust washers seem the best type to use going by past posts but somebody still must use the roller bearing type as they still sell them. So is the thinking still the same or??

I guess this falls in the category of which oil, transmission bands and a few other things that folks disagree on.
Thanks for any information

[SteveTN]

I have had them in mine for over 10 years. Never have had a problem.

[DanTreace]

Your T to experiment with non-stock parts, try 'em. My experience was poor, after take down of rear end to rebuild as a Ruckstell.

The tiny round needles in that bearing were flattened on some, and some were displaced and were stuck and couldn't rotate. My guess is the thrust or load on these little guys was too much, as the outer diameter of these is 1/2 that of the normal bronze thrust. Plus you have to rely on these providing the ring and pinion gear clearance, but you can't shave them down like the big round and fat bronze thrust washers, which help when rebuilding today with good used parts in your axle. IMO, Ford way is the simple and better.

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The old time bearing systems used heavy duty and tapered roller bearings, with special washers, those perhaps were beefy and maybe worked.

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[Roz]

The needles or rollers in those bearings would have to be tapered to rotate correctly. The straight ones, like the ones you buy today, will have to do some skidding as the assembly rotates. That's what wears them flat. The straight ones seem to me to be a poor design.

[rickg]

I have them in my 26 coupe, been in there for16 years no problems last time i looked they were fine, that being said when i tore down my 24 Fordor they were worn flat and were locked up and wouldn't turn it was almost like they had been in a press.

Rick

[John kuehn]

Glad to hear some interest in my post.
Rickg—— could it be that one wore more because of the way it was set up?
Hard to say I guess what it was but seems like the roller bearings would work and be an improvement but I guess it’s “try it if you like it” I guess.

[Steve Jelf]

So apparently sometimes they are OK and sometimes they are not. The bronze washers will long outlast me, so I'll stick with those.

[2nighthawks]

This is another case where I really believe in using the old "tried & true" original type, but if I were to go to the roller bearing type, I would devise some way to install some type of magnet in the fill plug or something, because roller bearings, especially small ones, do not do well with metal particles that occur with normal wear from gears and such,.....FWIW,.......harold

[Les Schubert]

I have used them on a POWERFUL (about 60HP) speedster with a stock type rear axle. They have survived just fine.
I wouldn’t bother on a Ruckstell because the thrust load is taken by the ball bearing where I always install the HEAVY Duty 7,000 series angular contact one. The other side is fine with a bronze washer set up for a close clearance fit!

[Allan]

IMHO they are a totally unnecessary complication. Has anyone heard of a failed bronze thrust washer?

Allan from down under.

[D Stroud]

I don't have any experience with them myself, but to me they do seem to be a fix for a non existent problem. JMHO Dave

[Stephen_heatherly]

The roller bearings are completely unnecessary. The bronze thrust washers will last nearly forever and are cheaper.

Stephen

[Scott Rosenthal]

Let me get this straight...replace a single component part that works fine, with a forty one piece component. Does this not literally translate to a 40X potential for failure? Sounds like a Rube Goldberg gag.
Regards,
Scott

[Pep C Strebeck]

The most recent rear axle rebuild that I had done had the replacement thrust bearings in it. The left side bearing was fine, but the right side had issues:

There was a significant amount of rust on the steel thrust plates, the bearing races, the cage and the rollers, but only on the right side. Also the rollers had flat spots on them where they were sliding instead of rolling. The pitting on the races and the rollers was pretty bad especially considering that they were swimming in gear lube (no water or moisture in the rear axle). The same issues were discussed in an earlier thread from the old forum:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/41 ... 1420001041

New brass/bronze thrust washers were installed during the rebuild.

[Allan]

As mentioned above, the rollers need to be tapered to roll evenly. If the inner end of a parallel roller makes one revolution, the outer end describing a longer arc needs to do more than a whole revolution. There has to be skidding going on. Tapered rollers can eliminate this, but, that would mean carefully matched steel washers would be needed each side to match the taper in the rollers. I have never seen anything like this.
I put these in the "It seemed like a good idea at the time" file.

Allan from down under.

[Charlie B in N.J.]

I too thought about this when I first came across it in a parts catalog years ago. Like many here the extra “bits” turned me off.

[R.V.Anderson]

I installed them in my '14 almost 20 years ago; no problems and the axle still runs quietly. I understand that the particular style I have is no longer available, so I have already acquired a full set of original style parts, both new and NOS, for when it comes time to rebuild.

[John Warren]

Like Steve said, the bronze will out last all of us. Yes the roller ones,if set up correctly, would work well. I run the bronze ones in all my cars with no issues. They are easy to trim if necessary for adjustment. You will have to have good pins in the carrier and housing to keep the steel washers from turning. I have always been afraid that the needle bearing could come apart and really mess up the rear end.

[Allan]

John raises another reason not to use the roller bearing thrusts. Just how do you adjust the clearance between the carrier and the two diff halves?

Allan from down under.

[D Stroud]

From all of these responses with differing results/opinions, I'm wondering about different manufactures/quality issues? It still seems like a fix for a non existent problem to me though. The post about the ones made with the tapered bearings and races makes way more sense to me, but are/were they worth it? As was said, there has to be some sliding wear with the current design. How long does it take to wear out the bronze washers? Anybody know? JMHO Dave

[Bill Robinson]

QUESTION- if the rollers on the bearings are tapered, only the FAT END of each roller would make contact with the steel thrust plates, because the small tapered end would not fully contact? Then as the fat end would wear and get smaller a whole new problem would be created by increasing the gap between the thrust plates?

[jab35]

Bill: Re-read Allan's post, tapered rollers require cone shape races to roll true. Cylindrical rollers against flat races have to 'skid' as others have noted. It's bronze for me. Drive careful everyone. jb