Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Cyclecar Guy
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:41 am
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Roth
Location: Wichita, KS

Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Cyclecar Guy » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:27 am

IMG_8309comp.JPG
IMG_8277comp.JPG
IMG_8309comp.JPG
IMG_8283comp.JPG
This is a prototype Cyclecar built from 1918-1925 in Hanlon, MA by a Dr. Kirk Hanson, who left virtually no information behind. The engine is a 1923 Henderson motorcycle engine. I am told the rear end is Model T. Does anyone recognize the transmission? It is a 3-speed with reverse. The input is by way of a coupling to what appears to be a 1" shaft. Does that suggest an aftermarket gearbox for the Model T? The cover has the numbers 14182 over a 3 cast into it. The right side of the case has the numbers 14181 cast into it with a curious trademark consisting of the letters H C G superimposed over each other, not necessarily in that order. I can try to post other photos if other features would help identify what the good Doctor ordered for his transmission. Jeff in Wichita.
Attachments
IMG_7886comp.JPG
IMG_8291comp.JPG


ThreePedalTapDancer
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:29 pm
First Name: Ed
Last Name: Martin
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1909 Touring
Location: Idaho

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by ThreePedalTapDancer » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:01 pm

1916-21 or so Chevy k or 490? Maybe truck too.
Last edited by ThreePedalTapDancer on Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.


ThreePedalTapDancer
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:29 pm
First Name: Ed
Last Name: Martin
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1909 Touring
Location: Idaho

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by ThreePedalTapDancer » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:02 pm

9B2346D2-9B10-48C6-892C-B1554BEED774.png
Similar transmission , probably in the same family of cars.


Dan McEachern
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:08 am
First Name: DAN
Last Name: MCEACHERN
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: too many. '14 touring, 2 depot hacks, 2 speedsters
Location: ALAMEDA,CA,USA

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Dan McEachern » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:23 pm

Yes, rear end is Model T.


Topic author
Cyclecar Guy
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:41 am
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Roth
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Cyclecar Guy » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:32 pm

Thank you for your posting. The ad copy, where it says the transmission is on open brackets, resembles what you see in these 2 photos. I'll be on the hunt for more views of Chevrolet transmission drawings and photos of the late teens era.
Attachments
IMG_8385.JPG
IMG_8384.JPG


Topic author
Cyclecar Guy
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:41 am
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Roth
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Cyclecar Guy » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:35 pm

Dan, thanks for confirming the existence of the Model T rear end.


Topic author
Cyclecar Guy
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:41 am
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Roth
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Cyclecar Guy » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:47 pm

For those curious about the air cooled Henderson engine. Special bronze cast timing cover for the fan to perch on and the crank to pass through. Rear end of the engine was cut off after the clutch eliminating the gearbox and chain sprocket, closed in with another casting allowing an extension of the crankshaft to mate with the transmission. It is surmised Dr. Garland wanted to go into production but the affordability of Henry Ford's products ended the era of motorcycle engine powered cyclecars.
Attachments
IMG_7859.JPG
IMG_7879.JPG


dunoon
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:47 pm
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Davis
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 coupe
Location: Lexington, Va

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by dunoon » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:02 pm

Back in the 30's my dad had a Heath Parasol Airplane. The original 2 cylinder french engine threw a rod over Iowa somewhere. He hobo on trains to get back to NW Indiana and headed back to Iowa with mt mom's model A. Took off the wings put the tail skid on the bumper and headed back to Indiana. He used a Henderson motorcycle for a replacement. He said it flew pretty good.

User avatar

Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5339
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Number: 479
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Henry K. Lee » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:33 pm

I believe the transmission was actually produced by International Harvester Company. The later versions of their "High Wheeler Buggy" used a similar style one. That Henderson engine alone is worth a small fortune to a bike collector. Last one in running condition I know of sold for $20,000.00.

Hank

User avatar

Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5339
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Number: 479
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Henry K. Lee » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:36 pm

I will do some research in my books, "The History of Chevrolet" had an article about shared components! You got me interested, Thank You!

Hank


Joe Bell
Posts: 1056
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:20 pm
First Name: Joe
Last Name: Bell
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Fordor
Location: Tiffin Ohio
MTFCI Number: 24066

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Joe Bell » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:51 pm

Years ago I poured and bored a henderson block, the rods and crank where real close to a T's.

User avatar

John Warren
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Warren
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Roadster, 25 Pickup , 26 Canadian Touring , and a 24-28 TA race car
Location: Henderson, Nevada

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by John Warren » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:02 pm

Nice car, thanks for sharing.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P


Topic author
Cyclecar Guy
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:41 am
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Roth
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Cyclecar Guy » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:42 pm

dunoon wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:02 pm
Back in the 30's my dad had a Heath Parasol Airplane. The original 2 cylinder french engine threw a rod over Iowa somewhere. He hobo on trains to get back to NW Indiana and headed back to Iowa with mt mom's model A. Took off the wings put the tail skid on the bumper and headed back to Indiana. He used a Henderson motorcycle for a replacement. He said it flew pretty good.
Great story from your dad.

The Henderson-Heath conversion added an extra deep oil pan (for hard banking LOL) and taller finned valve access plugs for additional cooling. Heath cast a logo plate for affixing the prop and made cast short exhaust headers in lieu of a muffler. I found one in Western Kansas but was too timid to make an airplane out of one.

I considered doing a Henderson ice sled, had the blueprints for one, but the lakes in Kansas don't freeze enough these days.

The Cyclecar is just fine.


Topic author
Cyclecar Guy
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:41 am
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Roth
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Cyclecar Guy » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:55 pm

Henry K. Lee wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:33 pm
I believe the transmission was actually produced by International Harvester Company. The later versions of their "High Wheeler Buggy" used a similar style one. That Henderson engine alone is worth a small fortune to a bike collector. Last one in running condition I know of sold for $20,000.00.

Hank
Thanks Hank. That could very well explain the logo. Will dig further. Photo will only load upside down, sorry.
Attachments
IMG_8303over.JPG

User avatar

Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5339
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Number: 479
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Henry K. Lee » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:38 pm

Still researching this since now I am into it!

Will post info when found with proof but this transmission was also used in early GMC trucks with an open topped cone clutch configuration.

Cool History!

Hank


Topic author
Cyclecar Guy
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:41 am
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Roth
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Cyclecar Guy » Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:30 am

Thanks again!
Attachments
IMG_7972.JPG


Toddman
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:47 pm
First Name: Todd
Last Name: Manoff
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Open Runabout, 1923 Speedster
Location: Santa Cruz

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Toddman » Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:35 am

That’s a neat little car Jeff. Did the original builder build any more or just the one car? Would be interested in hearing more about it. Is it a complete car? What is the track and wheelbase ? I am restoring my 13 Zip cyclecar and another old car friend is in town is restoring his ‘14 Scripps Booth.
Todd

User avatar

Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5339
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Number: 479
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Henry K. Lee » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:50 am

Jeff, Thanks for sharing!


Topic author
Cyclecar Guy
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:41 am
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Roth
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: Identify this Transmission? 1918 Cyclecar

Post by Cyclecar Guy » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:36 am

Toddman wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:35 am
That’s a neat little car Jeff. Did the original builder build any more or just the one car? Would be interested in hearing more about it. Is it a complete car? What is the track and wheelbase ? I am restoring my 13 Zip cyclecar and another old car friend is in town is restoring his ‘14 Scripps Booth.
Todd
Todd, I went back to this thread and saw your comment. I'm at Chance Rides Manufacturing, Inc. To answer your question this appears to be a one-off prototype of extremely high quality engineering. I have decided to do more of a refurbishment than originally intended and in the process have discovered numerous witness marks that were left by the original craftsmen, as if they were for intended production. They have been very handy in reassembly. This is the current view in Dick's shop.
Attachments
IMG_1089[1].JPG
IMG_1086[1].JPG
IMG_1083[1].JPG

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic