New Here
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Topic author - Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:00 am
- First Name: Allen
- Last Name: Hanford
- Location: Philadelphia PA
New Here
Hi, I joined this forum because I want a Model T and I want to know more about them before buying one. In the past I've just bought things on a whim and figured everything out later. That has yielded mixed results. I'm confident of my ability as an amateur mechanic but the idea of keeping a 100 year old machine in working order fills me with some trepidation.
Thanks in advance for answers to my questions.
Thanks in advance for answers to my questions.
-
- Posts: 406
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:53 am
- First Name: Harold
- Last Name: Schwendeman
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 Roadster Pickup, '26 Touring, '27 Depot Hack, '23 Roadster
- Location: Seattle
- MTFCA Number: 0
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: New Here
Allen - Welcome to the forum and the Model T "community"! You are definitely off to a good start. As an experienced amateur mechanic, you definitely have the right idea, because "generally speaking", Model T's are easy to work on, but definitely different. As an example, removal of a Model T starter motor might seem like a pretty straight forward operation, right? Just remove the mounting bolts and take it off, right? WRONG!!! That approach will not only not work, because the bendix cover and bendix assembly MUST be removed from the starter shaft FIRST, because it will not clear the magneto coil ring and any attempt to remove the starter with the bendix still on the starter shaft will probably destroy the magneto coil ring before even an experienced professional mechanic would even realize the damage has been done! Again,....just one example, but there are many other differences that need to be taken into account.
One other thing to consider; purchase of a running Model T is definitely the way to go. As long as the price is right, I'd venture to say that it doesn't really how bad it runs, as long as it will move under it's own power to any degree. A Model T that doesn't run could have serious problems that you'll only find out later,.....the hard way! And besides that, it can be very discouraging to have to do a lot of work on a car for a long time that, during all that time, you're still not sure it's gonna' run after you "think" it should. A running car, even if it needs a lot of work, is a constant encouragement, just because it actually does run!
Again,....welcome, and don't be afraid to ask questions anytime, here on the forum, or via local Model T club members, because that will enable you to make friends that will become excellent "contacts" for help later when you're working on that Model T,....FWIW,.....harold
One other thing to consider; purchase of a running Model T is definitely the way to go. As long as the price is right, I'd venture to say that it doesn't really how bad it runs, as long as it will move under it's own power to any degree. A Model T that doesn't run could have serious problems that you'll only find out later,.....the hard way! And besides that, it can be very discouraging to have to do a lot of work on a car for a long time that, during all that time, you're still not sure it's gonna' run after you "think" it should. A running car, even if it needs a lot of work, is a constant encouragement, just because it actually does run!
Again,....welcome, and don't be afraid to ask questions anytime, here on the forum, or via local Model T club members, because that will enable you to make friends that will become excellent "contacts" for help later when you're working on that Model T,....FWIW,.....harold
-
- Posts: 4072
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
- First Name: Norman
- Last Name: Kling
- Location: Alpine California
Re: New Here
A good thing about a Model T V/S other antique cars, is that almost any part need to keep it going, is readily available. Some body parts or other parts unique to a particular year are harder to find but still appear at swap meets. A good manual on the repair of Model T's is the original Service Manual which is available in re-print. There are also many manuals or video's available through the club or vendors on repair of particular parts for the do it yourself mechanic.
Most of the service operations can be done with simple tools without machinist experience, and machine shops are available to do such specialties as inserting valve seats, or boring cylinders or turning crankshafts. There are even shops which will re-babbit the connecting rods or main bearings. So, if you wish to do so, you can do the assembly and disassembly of the parts and outsource the more technical work.
The most important things to consider before buying a T are these:
Do you want a show car or a driver? For a show car, you need to have more exacting authentic parts for the particular car and better body and paint work. it is very hard to have the same car be both a show car and a driver because a show car must be kept in perfect condition, where a driver can show some wear and even have some parts which are not authentic for that particular year.
Next thing to consider is which group do you prefer? There are basicly three styles of Model T's. First is the Brass era which runs from 1909 through 1916. There were some things different about each year and the earlier ones are more rare and expensive to buy. The next era would be the black era. This ran from 1917 through 1925. There were two basic changes during this period when all the cars came from the factory in black. In 1919 the electric starter was first introduced as an extra, and not all the cars came from the factory with a starter. In 1923 the slant windshield and one man top for the touring were introduced.
The third era was the "Improved" Model T. These cars were offered in several colors and also had "Balloon" tires and better brakes. The cars also sat a bit lower to the ground. The basic drive train was the same all through the years with some changes offered as improvements during the years.
The next thing to consider is whether you want an open car or a closed car. The open cars will go a bit faster because they are lighter weight, but the closed cars have better protection from weather. Also there were 2 seat cars or 5 seat cars. So depending on how many passengers you wish to carry, this would be something to consider.
The last thing thing to decide is whether you want a TT truck. They are interesting, but were geared to haul a heavy load, but they are speed deficient. They are of interest but not as good for touring. Ok for parades or short tours, but not for long distances.
Do a lot of looking before you decide to buy one. Join a local club and meet some members who can help you find what you want, and also help you learn how to drive and maintain.
Welcome.
Norm
Most of the service operations can be done with simple tools without machinist experience, and machine shops are available to do such specialties as inserting valve seats, or boring cylinders or turning crankshafts. There are even shops which will re-babbit the connecting rods or main bearings. So, if you wish to do so, you can do the assembly and disassembly of the parts and outsource the more technical work.
The most important things to consider before buying a T are these:
Do you want a show car or a driver? For a show car, you need to have more exacting authentic parts for the particular car and better body and paint work. it is very hard to have the same car be both a show car and a driver because a show car must be kept in perfect condition, where a driver can show some wear and even have some parts which are not authentic for that particular year.
Next thing to consider is which group do you prefer? There are basicly three styles of Model T's. First is the Brass era which runs from 1909 through 1916. There were some things different about each year and the earlier ones are more rare and expensive to buy. The next era would be the black era. This ran from 1917 through 1925. There were two basic changes during this period when all the cars came from the factory in black. In 1919 the electric starter was first introduced as an extra, and not all the cars came from the factory with a starter. In 1923 the slant windshield and one man top for the touring were introduced.
The third era was the "Improved" Model T. These cars were offered in several colors and also had "Balloon" tires and better brakes. The cars also sat a bit lower to the ground. The basic drive train was the same all through the years with some changes offered as improvements during the years.
The next thing to consider is whether you want an open car or a closed car. The open cars will go a bit faster because they are lighter weight, but the closed cars have better protection from weather. Also there were 2 seat cars or 5 seat cars. So depending on how many passengers you wish to carry, this would be something to consider.
The last thing thing to decide is whether you want a TT truck. They are interesting, but were geared to haul a heavy load, but they are speed deficient. They are of interest but not as good for touring. Ok for parades or short tours, but not for long distances.
Do a lot of looking before you decide to buy one. Join a local club and meet some members who can help you find what you want, and also help you learn how to drive and maintain.
Welcome.
Norm
-
Topic author - Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:00 am
- First Name: Allen
- Last Name: Hanford
- Location: Philadelphia PA
Re: New Here
Thanks for the feedback.
I definitely want a driver. My actual preference is for a car that's had a period (or period-looking) conversion to a truck. There seem to be plenty out there.
I also don't want another restoration project. I've had enough old vehicles to know that even the car/motorcycle you drive home without incident will be a project just to keep going. I'm after a running/driving/stopping functional machine to start.
Obviously I don't want a showpiece and originality, while nice, is optional.
I definitely want a driver. My actual preference is for a car that's had a period (or period-looking) conversion to a truck. There seem to be plenty out there.
I also don't want another restoration project. I've had enough old vehicles to know that even the car/motorcycle you drive home without incident will be a project just to keep going. I'm after a running/driving/stopping functional machine to start.
Obviously I don't want a showpiece and originality, while nice, is optional.
-
- Posts: 3907
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Kuehn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
- Location: Texas
- MTFCA Number: 28924
Re: New Here
The last paragraph of Norms post says it all.
Take a little time and find a running car that’s still pretty decent. Before that find someone or a club in your area and ask to take a drive in one and just maybe they will let you drive it.
Get the Ford service manual and get aquainted with what makes a Model T tick.
If you live in a less populated area that’s a plus because you can easily take it out and drive it.
Good luck.
Take a little time and find a running car that’s still pretty decent. Before that find someone or a club in your area and ask to take a drive in one and just maybe they will let you drive it.
Get the Ford service manual and get aquainted with what makes a Model T tick.
If you live in a less populated area that’s a plus because you can easily take it out and drive it.
Good luck.
-
Topic author - Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:00 am
- First Name: Allen
- Last Name: Hanford
- Location: Philadelphia PA
Re: New Here
My wife rolled her eyes when she saw me reading the factory repair manual for relaxation.John kuehn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:17 pmGet the Ford service manual and get aquainted with what makes a Model T tick.
-
- Posts: 3907
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Kuehn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
- Location: Texas
- MTFCA Number: 28924
Re: New Here
Another good T information book and history of the changes of the car over the years is ‘From here to Obscurity’.
Of course there are a few other good ones but the above book really helped me along with the Ford service manual. And your wife will love that one! Maybe
Of course there are a few other good ones but the above book really helped me along with the Ford service manual. And your wife will love that one! Maybe
-
Topic author - Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:00 am
- First Name: Allen
- Last Name: Hanford
- Location: Philadelphia PA
Re: New Here
I'm not ready to buy but if I was I really like the looks of this one:
https://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/d/musk ... 81551.html
https://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/d/musk ... 81551.html
-
- Posts: 4308
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Tomaso
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
- Location: Longbranch, WA
- MTFCA Number: 14972
- MTFCI Number: 15411
- Board Member Since: 2001
Re: New Here
Cut-off Touring limits what else you can do with that configuration - if'n it was the Runabout body, at least you could interchange between the turtle deck and a factory steel box - price seems fair, though !
-
Topic author - Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:00 am
- First Name: Allen
- Last Name: Hanford
- Location: Philadelphia PA
Re: New Here
So that's what's going there? The body's cut off and the back of the cab is just the back of the seat? I don't mind it. I really like the idea of people using their ingenuity to create a functional result.
-
- Posts: 406
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:53 am
- First Name: Harold
- Last Name: Schwendeman
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 Roadster Pickup, '26 Touring, '27 Depot Hack, '23 Roadster
- Location: Seattle
- MTFCA Number: 0
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: New Here
Allen - A few comments,....for what they may be worth
I like the looks of that one too! Looks to me like just what you're looking for:
It's a truck (pickup) which is what you said you want.
It's one of what used to be called,...."the new improved" Model T, and as you'll learn,....while it's still a Model T, and most if not all parts will fit, there really were many very subtle and desirable "improvements".
Condition looks to be "perfect" for a "DRIVER",....really solid, but a scratch or ding would not ruin your day or cause any loss of sleep.
The price seems pretty reasonable to me if, as the seller states, it runs and has no major expensive sounding noises, like missing gear tooth, heavy knock from engine, etc.
Allen,...when you said you wanted "a truck",....assuming you meant a pickup as opposed to a TT truck, you also said something to the effect that,...."there seems to be a lot of them out there". There's a very interesting reason that I think is partially responsible for that:
During WW2, it was very easy to make a pickup truck out of a Model T touring car, which, by the way, was probably the most common body style Model T, as they were cheaper than a sedan, and could carry more passengers that a roadster or coupe. Also, by WW2, "them ol' fashioned Model T's could be had "for a song"! To make a pickup, it was very easy to cut off a touring car body right behind the front door, and remove the remaining rear section of the body and make a very simple wooden pickup box or even mount a flatbed for a hay wagon type Model T. Either way, this then resulted in a different classification for WW2 gasoline rationing because such a modification to the "T" then made it a "farm implement", and believe me,...a lot of farmers did it, and ya' hafta' wonder how much of a "farm" it was,...??? .....anyway, I always think that's an interesting "facet" of Model T history,......harold
I like the looks of that one too! Looks to me like just what you're looking for:
It's a truck (pickup) which is what you said you want.
It's one of what used to be called,...."the new improved" Model T, and as you'll learn,....while it's still a Model T, and most if not all parts will fit, there really were many very subtle and desirable "improvements".
Condition looks to be "perfect" for a "DRIVER",....really solid, but a scratch or ding would not ruin your day or cause any loss of sleep.
The price seems pretty reasonable to me if, as the seller states, it runs and has no major expensive sounding noises, like missing gear tooth, heavy knock from engine, etc.
Allen,...when you said you wanted "a truck",....assuming you meant a pickup as opposed to a TT truck, you also said something to the effect that,...."there seems to be a lot of them out there". There's a very interesting reason that I think is partially responsible for that:
During WW2, it was very easy to make a pickup truck out of a Model T touring car, which, by the way, was probably the most common body style Model T, as they were cheaper than a sedan, and could carry more passengers that a roadster or coupe. Also, by WW2, "them ol' fashioned Model T's could be had "for a song"! To make a pickup, it was very easy to cut off a touring car body right behind the front door, and remove the remaining rear section of the body and make a very simple wooden pickup box or even mount a flatbed for a hay wagon type Model T. Either way, this then resulted in a different classification for WW2 gasoline rationing because such a modification to the "T" then made it a "farm implement", and believe me,...a lot of farmers did it, and ya' hafta' wonder how much of a "farm" it was,...??? .....anyway, I always think that's an interesting "facet" of Model T history,......harold
-
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
- First Name: Henry
- Last Name: Lee
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
- Location: South Pittsburg, TN
- MTFCA Number: 479
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
Re: New Here
Welcome to our World Famous House of Nuts!!!!!
Hank
Hank
-
- Posts: 406
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:53 am
- First Name: Harold
- Last Name: Schwendeman
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 Roadster Pickup, '26 Touring, '27 Depot Hack, '23 Roadster
- Location: Seattle
- MTFCA Number: 0
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: New Here
Sorry Steve & Allen,....simultaneous typing! And by the way Steve,...."hi", and a very good point you make,.....harold
-
Topic author - Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:00 am
- First Name: Allen
- Last Name: Hanford
- Location: Philadelphia PA
Re: New Here
My grandfather converted a model A into a pickup during the war but all he did with it was drive to his job at the shipyard.
I saw a TT for sale in New Jersey but it wasn't running so even though it looked pretty good that's a "No" for me. I've had a LOT of old motorcycles and I always tell guys who are starting out never to buy something that doesn't run. It's a really hard way to get started and you'll likely run out of enthusiasm before you get to ride it.
Nearly all the stuff I have was compromised in some way before I bought it, which is exactly what I want. I'm preparing to do an engine swap with my MG midget right now and even though I'll keep the numbers matching engine it doesn't matter. My car isn't a showpiece and nobody gives a crap about midgets, anyway.
I saw a TT for sale in New Jersey but it wasn't running so even though it looked pretty good that's a "No" for me. I've had a LOT of old motorcycles and I always tell guys who are starting out never to buy something that doesn't run. It's a really hard way to get started and you'll likely run out of enthusiasm before you get to ride it.
Nearly all the stuff I have was compromised in some way before I bought it, which is exactly what I want. I'm preparing to do an engine swap with my MG midget right now and even though I'll keep the numbers matching engine it doesn't matter. My car isn't a showpiece and nobody gives a crap about midgets, anyway.
-
- Posts: 2461
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:30 pm
- First Name: Dave
- Last Name: Hjortnaes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Speedster, 20 touring
- Location: Men Falls, WI
- MTFCA Number: 28762
- MTFCI Number: 22402
Re: New Here
That is a very good price for a running car.
-
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:46 am
- First Name: Randy
- Last Name: Clemens
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Roadster Pickup, 1926 Roadster, 1927 Fordor
- Location: Fort Worth Texas
Re: New Here
Heres one with the roadster body and steel bed for close to the same price.
https://loz.craigslist.org/atq/d/rocky- ... 43852.html
https://loz.craigslist.org/atq/d/rocky- ... 43852.html
- Attachments
-
- z11.jpg (80.99 KiB) Viewed 4319 times
-
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:46 am
- First Name: Randy
- Last Name: Clemens
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Roadster Pickup, 1926 Roadster, 1927 Fordor
- Location: Fort Worth Texas
Re: New Here
Sorry....had the numbers mixed up in my head. Actually a higher price