White Tire Availability

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SurveyKing
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White Tire Availability

Post by SurveyKing » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:19 am

Does anyone know of any availability of White tires at this time?


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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Adam » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:29 am

In June I was told they expected 30 in a container “in about two months” and that a number of them were already pre-sold.

I would not be surprised if it was a few more months and/or they were all spoken for...


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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Rich Bingham » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:05 pm

Meanwhile we wait for more Blockley news and 30x3 tires.
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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:11 pm

Whatever you do, don't buy NOS. VOE :D
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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by SurveyKing » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:49 pm

Steve, are you referring to the NOS grey tires offered by Coker?

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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:47 pm

...are you referring to the NOS grey tires offered by Coker?

No, the NOS tires I bought were white Firestones made in New Zealand. They came out of the original wrappers looking brand new and gorgeous. Country roads ate them up in no time.

IMG_0016.JPG
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The fact is that rubber deteriorates with age, no matter how good it looks. I will not waste money on more NOS tires.
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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Brent Mize » Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:59 pm

I just got white smoothies from Universal this week.
I got the Universal smoothies. They were out of Firestones.
They were out of stock on some styles, but that had what I wanted.
They were out of stick in the 30x3.5 tubes with metal stems.
No big deal.
I was excited to get new tires for my 13.


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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by SurveyKing » Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:55 pm

Hey Brent, have you had good experiences with Universals? I have never owned any.


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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Scott Rosenthal » Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:59 pm

The white tires are display pieces only. You will not prevent them from browning, and all will check if you drive them. A shame that technology has not overcome these constants, but nobody here who has used them will dispute these realities. I use them for early cars because they look distressed as originals would. White then tan then brown, that's what they looked like back then.
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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Walter Higgins » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:29 pm

That didn't used to be the case. The white PJA's made 50+ years ago that you see today are still white. This one in the first photo is one I took last year on a car that is regularly toured. All of the PJA's that I have seen are still white, so it's not a matter of technology, it's a matter of a decline in the quality of the new product that seems to coincide with manufacturing moving overseas.

I have been round-and-round with this the last couple of years. The next photo is a 30 year old Universal next to its replacement (mounted in 2014) that turned brown in a matter of weeks. The 30 year old Universal had turned ivory long ago and then nothing more. Perfectly acceptable. They replaced that set under warranty. The third photo is from the same set shown above against its replacement in 2016. The replacement is starting to turn, but has taken longer. It is also on the road to being unattractive.

Making white tires that would hold their color used to be a doable thing. Somewhere along the way the chemistry changed. Maybe you'll get lucky and the new batch will have the issue resolved, but I think it highly unlikely as every time I have had this conversation with the suppliers they will admit that they don't know what causes it and they have no interest in rectifying it.

Also, for what it's worth -- some black Model T tires turn brown, too.
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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by TWrenn » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:50 pm

I will second what Scott just said. The first set of white ribbed I got last year, the 30x3's developed pretty serious splitting between the ribs. Don't see it when the tires are off the car, but definitely inflated. So thankfully Ashley Lang got them warranted out for me, albeit took a full year. I just sent the 2 defective ones back to Universal. New tires should be here shortly. I was told Vietnam only makes a batch of 500 at a time, and I think he even told me "for the year". They say it's just too much trouble changing over the mold from black tires to white tires to justify them. Eventually there'll be no more. They don't hold up anyway, like Scott said. Just "set 'em and forget 'em" I guess! But I like to drive too much. So when this set is gone, it's back to black.

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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:08 pm

They say it's just too much trouble changing over the mold from black tires to white tires to justify them.

My uneducated guess is that the molds are the same and the materials are different. But that doesn't matter. As long as all the clincher tires (except Blockleys) come from the same source, they will be what they are.
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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:41 am

What was that business a few years back concerning the type of tube used in the whites causing them to turn? Seemed pretty conclusive.
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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Walter Higgins » Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:18 am

Charlie B in N.J. wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:41 am
What was that business a few years back concerning the type of tube used in the whites causing them to turn? Seemed pretty conclusive.
The only thing that was conclusive is that they don't discolor until you inflate them. They can lay around wrapped, unwrapped, in the sun, or in the shade -- they will look fine until you inflate them.

The thing with the tubes was the tire suppliers said they wouldn't warranty discolored replacements any longer unless you used the tube that they specified. On the second set shown above we did and, while they discolored more slowly, they have now discolored and become unattractive. Even before you would get some tires that turn fast, some slowly, some with irregular colors, hard spots, etc. It seems to vary batch-to-batch depending on whatever they decide to stir into the pot that day.


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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by SurveyKing » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:29 am

I know the browning issue has been discussed at length in the past, but it is good to get up dates. What I have not heard anything about is the use of Tire Flaps and their relationship with the browning. Would that be the same as the tubes?

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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by George Mills » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:51 am

Walter,

I watch these threads on white tires, wanted to scream "NO" on the idea of using a less permeable inner tube but bit my tongue because hey, it's not my forte and maybe, just maybe a tube that has almost no permeability to the 19th decimal place might just slow 'the browns' down enough to actually be acceptable? Good idea, apparently not so in practice.

I am certainly not expert enough to offer and drive a solution to completion, yet I am dangerous enough to comment...I've done color rubber linings for condiment lines (don't ask, but yes, Yellow, Red, Green and White ARE the predominant colored rubbers used in the day to line the pipes and valves.) I also in the last decade had access to a latex to vulcanized natural rubber process line in one of the Group Company before it permanently changed over to molded PU (polyurethane) production.

I only run black tires so don't have a hydrant in this in any way but so far have a swag/opinion as to what the mysterious 'blooming' may be. Not sure "C" will ever want to do anything about it with the manufacture being one production run a year with so far seemingly half coming back!

I need help with two clues before I think it through to the next level.

1 - Can someone with a modern 'brown' that is NOT being returned give the surface a quick polish using Acetone and a rough but not abrasive scrub pad? Let me know the results?

2 - If possible, can someone take a modern 'brown' that is un-returnable due to use and cut a cross section and photo up close? I'm trying to understand the build up process specific to these tires.


If anyone knows I'd also like to know what "C" uses as a whitener to shoot off the natural rubber dungy grays to be true white! I'm guessing that it is not titanium dioxide, as thats exactly what they did 100+ years ago when folks complained that the natural rubber tires were not only dungy gray when they bought a car, they looked like crap further within a month. 2nd generation technology became true white with all the binder going Titanium Oxide base and while white...folks were lucky to get two hundred miles out of them...but sort of OK, casings had habit of getting torn within that limit anyway.

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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Walter Higgins » Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:35 am

Hi George, I'm glad that you joined the discussion. I can't answer all of your questions but I can add to the confusion if you would like. The first set of whites that turned brown were turned back in for the warranty claim. The second set of whites that have now turned brown are on a car that I don't have access to at the moment. I will gladly test as outlined when I can, but that may not happen this year.

I will add a couple of observations:

These new white tires seem to have a more porous surface finish when inflated as compared to the 30+ year old white Universals I have handled which seem to have more of a waxy finish.

I have also handled an equal number of sets of gray tires. The gray tires look like a white tire "painted" gray. However, the white tires look like a gray tire painted white. I've had whites that are gray in the inside and grays that are white on the inside. I've had grays that have a white clincher bead and grays that are gray all the way around and the color wraps partly inside and then changes to white. To say nothing of ordering one set, unwrapping them, and finding different combinations such that you can't get a matched color/set on a single car.

If you want I'll add more photos later.

As to the tubes, they used to say the EEC tube was the problem, so then they required use of the individually-boxed Hartford tube for warranty claims. I put both side-by-side and looked them over hard with respect to mold marks and whatnot. They are exactly identical except one says "EEC" and the Hartford's say "Made in China".

With respect to the flap question above -- in the case of the white tires shown we reused three of the 30+ year old flaps that were already installed previously and one new "Made in USA" flap and that had no effect as all four discolored equally.

Also, the inside of the tires don't turn brown.

Just to irritate the black tire crowd, I will attach the following!
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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by sweet23 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:53 am

Does bleach have any effect on cleaning browned tires back to white ?

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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Walter Higgins » Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:56 am

sweet23 wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:53 am
Does bleach have any effect on cleaning browned tires back to white ?
I have not found a way to turn them white again using any of the conventional cleaning methods.


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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by SurveyKing » Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:32 pm

Coker has Firestone Smooth whites. I just ordered a set.

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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Walter Higgins » Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:40 pm

SurveyKing wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:32 pm
Coker has Firestone Smooth whites. I just ordered a set.
Good luck! I should have pointed out that the grays I mentioned above were all smooth Firestones.

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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by George Mills » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:28 pm

Walter,

Got it.

See, in your own answer, you did nudge my thought as to what I suspect. What you describe is a laminated construction. “Clincher bead one color...”. I don’t mean ply like old day 4 ply and I don’t mean retread/caps.

Think roll of tape in reverse where the use carbon black for some features, then maybe a natural rubber dungy grey for a few wraps, and then a few wraps of an almost tacky white-white that doesn’t have a lot of durability, but looks good! I don’t know, but with enough clues we can eventually figure it out

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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Walter Higgins » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:42 pm

Since you are a sucker for punishment, George, here are a couple more! Of the ones that had a white bead some were so sloppy that the white was just peeking out from the rim when installed. I don't remember being able to feel a step at the color change if that helps. The second photo is the all-gray tire (on the left in the first photo) spread open to look inside. I have another set of grays here to unwrap soon so we'll see what kind of surprises they have in store for us.
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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Art Ebeling » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:26 am

My white Universals that are just over a year old, never been outside for longer than a couple of hours and never been on the road, are turning brown. I used new tubes and flaps, and my T sits in an air conditioned and heated garage. I tried to clean them up yesterday to no avail. Art

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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:45 pm

Tre have been many discussions on the cause of white tires turning brown. This one begins ti suspect tubes marked EEC as the cause but questions about the inside being white while the outside is brown contradicts that theory. Those with white tires, brown or white, will have to confirm. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/70 ... 1499023275. While internet searching for a cause I came across this - so maybe its worth a try - steam heat. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/70 ... 1488821085
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Re: White Tire Availability

Post by Walter Higgins » Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:33 pm

I've dealt with whitewalls that have browned and that is a completely different animal. Typically it will clean away with Bleche-Wite. At worst they can be wet sanded clean with 600gt sandpaper. I've not seen whitewalls that turn brown experience the inconsistent surface degradation of the rubber where you'll have a dense hard spot right next to open cracks.

Interestingly enough, as was pointed out to me by a friend offline, he has seen the PJA's that I mentioned above where they are black on the inside. The same is true of the old Universals that I have handled, neither of which have this issue of discoloring and degrading.

This photo will show the worst of the issue. This was a tire mounted in 2014 and switched out in 2017 when this photo was taken, though it was already significantly deteriorated well before that. It just took a while to sort through securing another set and doing the swap.
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