MTFCA Forum

The 13T’s new radiator came in from Brassworks today. I’m thankful for their knowledge and experience to produce such a beautiful part of the T.

Darin

Those new brass rads sure look nice don't they Darin.
Piece of advice/suggestion...the area of brass from the gas pipe downward, being the narrow flat front trim piece and even the horizontal flat section where it bolts onto the frame...I learned to mask that section from the rest, and spray them with gloss lacquer. It does a great job of protecting it, especially the horizontal flat bracket section, which is all but impossible to really keep polished 'cause it's just plain hard to get at, plus the bolt/cotter pin gets in the way and likes to grab ur skin. The lower front trim piece takes a beating from the road grime also, and this really keeps it looking good. Do what you want, just a suggestion.

It sure is perty. I love mine. Did you notice the tag on the under side of the top tank?

Tim - Sounds like a great suggestion.

Keith - I did not notice that Brassworks tag/serial number until you pointed it out. Thank you.

This radiator is an exciting part to get in. It is a center piece of a brass era Model T and will, hopefully, be the last major part needed on this restore to get it initially back on the road. I know there’s a lot of parts in the future to keep the old girl on the road... but one step at a time!

Darin

It's too bad they don't make them like Ford did!

Where would we be if someone weren't making these kinds of things? Yes, they get compensated for their products but if we could see what goes into creating these things I think we would be surprised.
Thanks from me too.
Rich

Rich,

You mention something I’ve been thinking about recently. How long before skill sets, such as making a new brass Model T radiator, no longer exist? And the ease we have as Model T owners of ordering parts from companies like Lang’s?

Do y’all think we are in the sunset of such easy access to parts and companies willing to manufacture them? Or do you think the sheer number of Model Ts will continue to keep this blessing going for an indefinite future?

Darin

T tires... Transmission bands... some parts are prone to wear out and need replacement often.

Obviously there are swap meets for parts... but ease of access and current manufacturing helps keep the cost of these things way down. How long before that luxury starts to dissipate for Model T owners? How long before our hobby grows exponentially expensive? I might ask this on another thread down the road.

Another vehicle we have from my grandpa is a 1937 Austin Seven. You want to talk about a great disparity between access to parts... the Model T as compared to the Austin is a great chasm.

I feel blessed to have companies like Brassworks and Lang’s who care about the hobby and keep our Ts on the road.

Darin

Rich Eagle wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:45 am

. . . if we could see what goes into creating these things I think we would be surprised.
Thanks from me too.
Rich

Anyone who has set out to make a part or two for their Model T understands the difficulties involved, and usually comes away appreciating how reasonably priced reproduction parts are, all considered. I add my thanks to those who provide for the hobby.

I do wish that all reproduction parts were made to the exact specifications of the originals, though. Some are disappointing in that regard, but not many, thankfully.

New radiator for my 1913 was purchased last spring. Thank You Brassworks! I do not plan on polishing it so eventually it will match the patina on the rest of the brass lights on the car.

As far as the expertise and craftsmanship disappearing, we have lost countless experts and artisans over the all the years the cars have existed. What gives me hope is the way new technology and bright enthusiasts found new ways to make these things. I would think there will always be things available as long as there is a demand. The clever young lads that are joining our ranks may keep the work going. Let's be kind to them when we can.
Rich

While I agree that it would be great to have everything exactly as the factory made them, I am tremendously grateful for all the makers of reproduction parts. As was mentioned earlier about an Austin, I have owned several other cars including a pair of Franklins, multiple Lincolns, three Nashes and now a one-of-eight Cadillac. Us T guys really have it good when it comes to parts.

ericmac wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:19 pm

Us T guys really have it good when it comes to parts.

Amen to that....So do the A’s. Having restored a Packard and a Porsche in the past in addition to owning many Model T’s and A’s I stay strictly with the Fords.......so many suppliers with quality parts.

Whenever the subject of old car prices comes up a friend say's "Try buying Airplane Parts". We are pretty lucky.

I bought one of the original Gilbert radiators, almost 60 years ago. Progress in many ways has improved, but in others has gotten worse. What the Brassworks needs is a copy of Ford's radiator book.
We all know how much a T frame can flex. That is why Ford riveted many of the parts together, This is something the Brassworks doesn't do. And why do they cut a notch it the top tank to roll over the top header in the core? Ford certainly didn't do this. But what do I know?
Oh, BTW, my Gilbert radiator back in 1962 cost me $135!

The radiator didn’t come with a hole for the choke. Would y’all suggest drilling a hole in the correct place, which I can use the old radiator as a reference? Or fishing it through the radiator fins like I’ve seen some others?

Darin

NO!!! Do NOT put the choke rod through the core (fins and tubes) Drill a hole in the apron. Use your old radiator to see where to drill the hole. Also the GREAT folks at Brassworks can give you almost any patina you want on a brand new radiator . They did my 1915 touring and it matched the rest of my 105 year old brass exactly. bobt

Darin,

Try this.

Dan

The radiator didn’t come with a hole for the choke.

Why not? I don't always agree with Larry, but I'm sure with him on this. It's the main reason I had my 1915 radiator recored instead of buying a new one. Of course, saving several hundred dollars didn't hurt.

I suppose the difference between 1920 and 2020 makes today's less sturdy radiator construction described by Larry adequate for most people. A hundred years ago a Model T in most cases was the owner's only car, a daily driver, and in many cases it was driven on roads that gave everything a good shaking. Today most Model T's are driven much less, and mostly on smooth roads, so the flimsier radiators survive in them. I suspect this is why I haven't seen more forum complaints about new radiators coming apart.

Just to keep things on a level playing field. That $135 radiator in 1962 should cost in the neighborhood of $1850 today. This is based on an average hourly income in 1962 of $2.10 vs. and average hourly income in 2020 of $28.50. If you calculate the cost of the radiator today using inflation I am sure the radiator would be closer to $2000. I believe the current brass radiators from Brassworks are in the $1400 to $1500 range. The exception being early Ford radiators. I have a Brassworks brass radiator on my Ford and really cannot find any fault with its quality or workmanship. Like any business I am sure Brassworks has had a less than perfect radiator escape out the door occasionally. They may not be perfect but they are perfect enough for this T owner.

My inflation calculator shows $135 spent in 1962 is equivalent to $1158 in 2020, a cumulative inflation rate of 758%. Of course in comparing the value of an item like a radiator the comparison assumes identical attributes, materials, workmanship, etc. Dollar for dollar the comparison is valid, but radiator for radiator its like comparing apples and Quinces.

It would be nice if every reproduction was perfect but they aren't.
One that comes to mind is the hundreds of Holley NH needles and seats that were form cut instead of ground. Every one leaked like a sieve but the maker never said a word until they were all sold and has ducked the issue of who made them every time it has come up on the forum.

I’m waiting for the petcock to come in for the radiator. Are there any issues with the threads leaking typically? Y’all just screw the petcock in or use some kind of tape or sealant to prevent leaks?

Darin

I installed my new Brassworks radiator on my 14 in January along with my refreshed engine. My car still leaks a bit of gas and some oil, but not one drop of water. It also does not puke water out when I stop it.

Boyce Motometer Jr and gull wings came in and have found their new home

Darin, I would not use the wings on the motometer. I had the experience with wings on a new brassworks radiator that I believe caused the solder joints to crack on the filler neck twice. After the second repair, I replaced the wings with a dogbone and have not had a problem in 7-8 years. "Experts" on the forum strongly disagreed with me but I can only state the facts from experience and not theory. I think the wings cause excessive wind pressure on what I believe weaker is brass used in the top tank, not necessarily thinner brass. I think others have had the same problem but did not zero in on the wings effect. Best wishes, Dick.