front crank felt gasket replacement

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
dhosh
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:13 pm
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: Hoshield
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '24 RPU (Raodster converted to Pickup)
Location: Petoskey, MI
MTFCA Number: 24305
Board Member Since: 2015
Contact:

front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by dhosh » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:12 pm

How is a new felt (or other) front crank gasket be installed on the block side? I wouldn't be opposed to installing a modern type seal, but really don't want to disrupt the crandlk and main bearing fitingsvto lift the crank up far enough to install.

That pretty much leaves rope (I saw a Mike Bender video where he installed a teflon impregnated one), or felt. I put black RTV on the block side of the felt, the tried stuffing it between the crank and the block.... But couldn't get it all the way around the crank.

Suggestions? The pan side is no problem, as I can easily put it in the slot for it, before mounting the pan.

Thanks,

Dennis
'24 RPU
Petoskey, Mi

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by DanTreace » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:28 pm

Since you have the pan off, easy to remove the front plate ( timing gear or timing cover - cylinder cover) and install the rope seal.

Seat it with the cylinder side of a socket the same dia. as the crankshaft. Then refit the timing cover, being sure to tap it in place while aligning the timer cover to the timer tool to insure the cam shaft is centered with the timer. Important to use that tool!



IMG_2906.jpeg


Timer tool used to align cam shaft with front plate. Keeps the timer rotor in the proper relationship to the cam and the timer case.
IMG_2902.jpeg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Topic author
dhosh
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:13 pm
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: Hoshield
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '24 RPU (Raodster converted to Pickup)
Location: Petoskey, MI
MTFCA Number: 24305
Board Member Since: 2015
Contact:

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by dhosh » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:57 pm

Oh, duh! Gosh.. I didn't think of that extra bit having off the front, that could be removed! But then, I wouldn't have known about yet another tool I don't have...the timer tool!
'24 RPU
Petoskey, Mi

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by DanTreace » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:21 pm

Yep, get that tool. The one shown was made by Gene French, the rebabbit jig guy :) Works great and low cost.

When centered the front plate can then be fitted with modern neoprene type seal on the cam shaft, to prevent oil leaks into the timer case, and do away with the felt seal and the brass plate over it. Gets rid of un-needed stuff there!


IMG_2904.jpeg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Topic author
dhosh
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:13 pm
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: Hoshield
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '24 RPU (Raodster converted to Pickup)
Location: Petoskey, MI
MTFCA Number: 24305
Board Member Since: 2015
Contact:

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by dhosh » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:16 pm

Dan ... Is that alignment tool Snder's T-3009-T, vs the T-3009-KRW?
'24 RPU
Petoskey, Mi


Allan
Posts: 5205
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by Allan » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:35 am

I use the white rope seals listed by Snyder's as A model seals. They are longer than needed and can be trimmed back. Seat them as Dan suggested with a socket. I like to leave them about the thickness of the pan gasket proud of the block deck. I trim the gasket to fit around the seal. Then the pan half is fitted, also left a little proud. When the two are brought together, the two halves have that little more crush to ensure a good seal.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by DanTreace » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:19 am

The tool shown in my photo is this one from Gene, the others work as well.The fancy KRW repro just costs more. :D


by Gene_French » Fri May 10, 2019 11:09 am

centering tool used to position the front timing cover concentric to the camshaft … this tool sets in the timer recess and assures the centering of the front cover during assembly … uniform timing and improved performance between individual cylinders is achieved as a result … price $24.00 + $7.60 flat rate priority mail postage in lower 48 states … actual postage outside this area or international … Gene French ph. 970-581-2808
t cover loc.jpg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Topic author
dhosh
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:13 pm
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: Hoshield
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '24 RPU (Raodster converted to Pickup)
Location: Petoskey, MI
MTFCA Number: 24305
Board Member Since: 2015
Contact:

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by dhosh » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:31 pm

Thanks! I was going to look for his number or email address tonight!

Guess I'd better get one ordered!!

I appreciate it!
'24 RPU
Petoskey, Mi

User avatar

ABoer
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:41 pm
First Name: Anthonie
Last Name: Boer
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 touring 1923 roadster 1925 pickup
Location: Klaaswaal NL
MTFCA Number: 19790

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by ABoer » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:10 am

I have good experience with an oil seal , and glue them against the block with J-B weld .
Toon
IMGP1393.JPG
IMGP2542.JPG


SurfCityGene
Posts: 600
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:00 pm
First Name: Gene
Last Name: Carrothers
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 Torpedo Roadster
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
MTFCA Number: 22905
MTFCI Number: 23068
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by SurfCityGene » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:22 pm

Dennis, If you don't want any leaks at your crankshaft then do as Toon recommended. but DON"T Use JB weld!! Use Ultra Black gasket sealer from Permatex because it will adhere Very well and also is FLEXIBLE. You'll have room for this seal but I bend a few more pedals on that daisy type flow of a seal. Mounted backwards it will still prevent any oil leaks till the next O/H!!
You can Google Crankshaft Seal MTFCA and find a lot more info there.
1912 Torpedo Roadster


Topic author
dhosh
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:13 pm
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: Hoshield
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '24 RPU (Raodster converted to Pickup)
Location: Petoskey, MI
MTFCA Number: 24305
Board Member Since: 2015
Contact:

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by dhosh » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:01 pm

Dan ...

On Lang's site, it says the crankshaft and fanbelt pulley would need to be removed... Doesn't seem like the crankshaft would need to be removed??

Thanks..

Dennis
'24 RPU
Petoskey, Mi


Topic author
dhosh
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:13 pm
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: Hoshield
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '24 RPU (Raodster converted to Pickup)
Location: Petoskey, MI
MTFCA Number: 24305
Board Member Since: 2015
Contact:

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by dhosh » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:13 pm

Might anyone know NAPA part numbers for the crank and camshaft modern seals? I can certainly order from 5ge venders (Snyder's are my go-to guys, as shipping to me seems to be faster)... But I'm in the NAPA store all the time, and used to deliver parts to them......

Thanks!
'24 RPU
Petoskey, Mi


SurfCityGene
Posts: 600
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:00 pm
First Name: Gene
Last Name: Carrothers
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 Torpedo Roadster
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
MTFCA Number: 22905
MTFCI Number: 23068
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by SurfCityGene » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:03 pm

Dennis, you saw the picture that Toon posted. That is how you can install the seal without and problem. Most all T's have enough room to install a thin seal. One is Harwal 30-50-05 oil seal type AO NBR. Here's some part numbers from some seal I've used. Those are the mm sizes for the Harwal seal

CR 12458, will also work

Gene
1912 Torpedo Roadster


SurfCityGene
Posts: 600
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:00 pm
First Name: Gene
Last Name: Carrothers
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 Torpedo Roadster
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
MTFCA Number: 22905
MTFCI Number: 23068
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by SurfCityGene » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:07 pm

Sorry cam seal is skf 9853 or cr is 9876 Use the Ultra Black to glue it to the block.. Check out the detailed instructions on Google that I've posted
1912 Torpedo Roadster

User avatar

Chris Bamford
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:01 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Bamford
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Speedster 1926 Touring
Location: Edmonton AB Canada
MTFCA Number: 17817

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by Chris Bamford » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:36 pm

I’ve used Gene’s technique successfully a couple times (although I prefer Right Stuff as the sealant/adhesive).

You might find your seal is a bit too thick and fouls against the crank pulley — I had that issue with one of the reproductive aluminum clamp-on pulleys, easily overcome with a bit of lathe work.


Topic author
dhosh
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:13 pm
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: Hoshield
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '24 RPU (Raodster converted to Pickup)
Location: Petoskey, MI
MTFCA Number: 24305
Board Member Since: 2015
Contact:

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by dhosh » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:31 pm

Thanks, all!
'24 RPU
Petoskey, Mi


Topic author
dhosh
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:13 pm
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: Hoshield
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '24 RPU (Raodster converted to Pickup)
Location: Petoskey, MI
MTFCA Number: 24305
Board Member Since: 2015
Contact:

Re: front crank felt gasket replacement

Post by dhosh » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:51 pm

Is there any harm in bending the pieces between the pedals back as well? Looks like I could gain a bit more clearance.
20200923_224452_copy_600x800_1.jpg
20200923_224502_copy_600x800_1.jpg
Got the rope in too.... (Well, half, anyway...)
20200923_222112_copy_600x450_1.jpg
20200923_222112_copy_600x450_1.jpg (43.07 KiB) Viewed 2409 times
'24 RPU
Petoskey, Mi

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic