Rubbing noise???

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Larry e rutt
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Rubbing noise???

Post by Larry e rutt » Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:34 pm

I have a 26 fordor. What appears to be original...when make a hard right turn at low speed a get a loud rubbing or almost grinding noise.. it sounds like it is under the floor board..what do you think ? Worn out thrust washers in the rear ? Or u joint ? Or what ?


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by John kuehn » Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:55 pm

Noise has a way of sounding in different places. While it may be coming from the areas mentioned I would check the front end first by jacking up the front end off the ground and slowly see if there is any play or etc. in the tie rods, and etc. There probably is.
From what you mentioned it’s when you turn to the right but what about making a hard turn to the left? Does it do that also?


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Larry e rutt » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:03 pm

Actually sometimes I need to turn left to release it..it kinda binds and holds back..


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by John kuehn » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:10 pm

Take a look at the front end first with it jacked up and then go from there. If it seems to get in a bind when turning the steering wheel back and forth then you have found the problem.


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by John Codman » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:12 pm

You need to carefully inspect the entire axle, spring, and steering system before you drive the car on the road again. It sounds as if something is bent or loose. The fact that you have to apply leverage to the steering wheel to get the car to straighten out of the turn bothers me. A tight T front end will self-center just like a modern car.


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by John kuehn » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:18 pm

Like John C says check closely. It could be anything from the steering gears in the case broken or jamming up or something bent, loose or broken in the steering system under the car. Check the arm that’s on the lower end of the steering shaft to see if it’s loose.
It’s an accident fixing to happen if you keep trying to drive it!

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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by GrandpaFord » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:42 pm

I had the same noise after changing fan belts. The fan was hitting the pulley in the front of the engine. Only happened on hard right turns. Also check to see if the hand crank is trying to engage on hard right turns.


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Dallas Landers » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:44 pm

The wrong year parts in the front end can make it go over center?


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Norman Kling » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:16 pm

Check the right front tire when the steering wheel is all the way to the right. It could be scraping on the frame or fender if the steering is off center. This can happen if you have the wrong drag link from a different year car.
If you have a ruckstell axle, it is unlikely worn thrust washers because you have a large ball bearing on the left side. However with a standard Ford rear axle a worn thrust washer on the right side could cause some noise in the rear axle transmitted through the drive shaft tube. To check for this jack up both rear wheels and try to pull the axle in and out from side to side. There should be very little noticeable play there if everything is correct.
Norm


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:48 pm

Could be more than one issue. The steering problem could very well be the wrong drag link, or other problems. The grinding sound could be any of several things. Even a Ruckstell has one thrust washer on the right half that could maybe still be soft metal. If it has failed, the Ruckstell side will TRY to hold it back, but not be able to do so adequately. If the axles shift toward the right side, the brake shoes can rub against the drum, or the drum against the backing plate, causing a grinding sound. That grinding sound has a nasty habit of traveling up the driveshaft and torque tube, making it sound like it is coming from the transmission.
If you do not know whether or not that one thrust washer has been replaced with a brass/bronze one? You should as a high priority get inside and check it! A Ruckstell is NO guarantee that a washer failure won't result in loss of brakes or power to the wheels.


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Larry e rutt » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:17 am

Thanks guys.... its definitely not the front end... when I yank on the wheels I cant move em in or out at all.however now at closer inspection i see parts of grease cups at the outer bearing. Maybe i need some grease, maybe i need to get in there and take a look around..

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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Humblej » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:38 am

Larry, you wrote that you need to turn left to release it, and it kind of binds... Are you talking the steering, or the noise? If that is a description of the steering you have a dangerous situation.
Last edited by Humblej on Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Larry e rutt » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:12 pm

It's not a steering issue...it feels like the rear binds, and makes a awful grinding/scraping noise..turning to the left releases then I'm good to go.. I can drive for an hour and no problem till I make a hard slow right turn.. some day I'll figure out how to make a YouTube video..


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Ray Syverson » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:30 pm

so, if the rear seems to bind, jack up both rear wheels and check for end play. If you can move them in and out one eight inch, that is way too much. Actually a sixteenth inch is more than it should be. It sounds like when you make a right turn one of the axels moves so far inward that the hub bolt nuts are hitting on something. You may still have the original babbit thrust washers? They should be replaced to be safe.

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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by ABoer » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:36 pm

Larry ; I am sertain it is comming from worn out thrust washers in the rear .
Take Care
Toon


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by bron-hertford-nc » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:09 pm

Same symptoms on a 26 Runabout that I bought in 2013 that had sat for 41 years and have used since then on many tours - that little whine on right hand turns - straight ahead noiseless. Opened it up a month ago - no right side bronze thrust washer - its remains looked like oatmeal. Everything else fine except for 2596 drive shaft sleeve (re pinion gear) which looked like it had been misaligned at factory installation ( car has never been apart) and when pulled had a crack emanating from the slot - disaster would have occurred - check this closely - I opted for the Fun Projects adjustable pinion bearing assembly. to avert a re-installment of a 2596 sleeve mess - available through Birdhaven.
Read Glen Chaffins book and pay particular attention to the section on Adjust Axle End Play - it starts there, get it right.


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Larry e rutt » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:31 pm

So when I yank on the rear wheels I have about a quarter inch play on the right side and eighth inch on the left side... I guess I found my problem... now I need to decide if I want to tackle it myself or pay someone to rebuild my rear end..I consider my self a pretty good shade tree mechanic LOL...I'm sure i could take it apart, i have a good vise grips, a hammer and a torch..LOL. what for special tools would I need to put new parts in my rear ?


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by John kuehn » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:41 pm

Larry have you gotten any of the repair manuals that’s available to repair parts of a Model T?
The vendors sell them and if you don’t have them the Ford service manual is overall what’s needed to learn about repairs on a T. Also available are the individual manuals for different aspects of a T.
If your going to try to repair your rear end by all means get the repair manual for the rear end that’s avaliable.
Follow it and you can’t go wrong.
You will learn what to do and what’s more important what NOT to do.
Hope this helps.


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Norman Kling » Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:49 pm

There are two things which could cause the play. One is the thrust washers on each end between the carrier and the inner bearing. There are steel disks with a babbit washer between. In all cases, whether or not the babbit seems good, it should be replaced with bronze. The other place where you could have play would be the fiber washer between the ends of the axles which is inside the carrier.
It is relatively to replace these, and if nothing else is worn, you can use common tools and even sandpaper to surface the washers to get the correct clearance. If the gears or bearings need to be replaced, you at least need a puller to remove the pinion gear.
The club publishes a very good step by step manual on the rear axle. Very good for do it yourself workers. You can do the work yourself or with one helper. You don't need a machine shop to do the work. Just follow the instructions. And parts are available from the suppliers.
Norm


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by bron-hertford-nc » Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:15 pm

Larry - it is not only the tool compliment but the workshop - what do you have - large vises to hold axle shafts, areas to hold the axle drive shaft assemblies vertically and horizontally, gear pullers for bearing assemblies , grinders or sanding machines to machine the bronze thrust bearings, dial measuring equipment . If you say no I can't hack that then find somebody that can do it. Again get/read Chaffins book on rebuilding front ends and rear ends. It' is an easy job if you have the equipment/facility . If you can't answer yes to what Chaffin tells you to do then find somebody. Don't get yourself soured on Model T work because you didn't take into account all the elements. They are lovely/ forgiving machines and there is a host of people out there to help you do it right. That's the beauty of MTFCA and MTFCI - help is only a call away.


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Larry e rutt » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:22 am

Does this mean my rear end will no longer be able to come apart to rebuild ??
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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by DanTreace » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:11 pm

No, the axle tube isn’t to be removed in repairs.

But yours is welded so was loose due to loose rivets or maybe a crack, so that housing has had a rough life.

May indicate the internal parts are well used too. Finding a good used replacement housing is easy.
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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Dan B » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:21 pm

1923 Touring


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Larry e rutt » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:22 pm

Great thanks.. one of these days I'll get around to pulling this thing apart..


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Larry e rutt » Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:34 pm

Let the fun begin
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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Larry e rutt » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:48 pm

So I see a few issues... scraping on the felt cap, scraping on the bolt heads, pins are gone. My question is, is this all a result of the thrust washers being shot ?
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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Norman Kling » Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:50 pm

If you have end play in the axle, your scraping could be caused by the thrust washers being worn out. Another thing which will cause a similar problem would be the tapers on the ends of the axles or inside the hubs or a combination of both. That problem is caused by the hub being too close to the seal cap.
Norm

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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:36 pm

It's amazing to me that the old Babbitt thrust washers are as intact as they appear in the photo. The wear on the three bolt heads shows that they have been rubbing on the housing, maybe the source of your unhappy sounds.

I agree that you should have the MTFCA Axle book for this job. It gives you step-by-step what to measure, what to replace, etc., etc. I have just one quibble with the book. Glen is impartial on whether to use the stock pinion bearing or the fun Projects replacement. I will go with the FP every time. The adjustable version is to comfort the guys who need something to adjust. I have used the non-adjustable version and it is fine.

Obviously all this has nothing to do with steering. If you have any problem there, it's unrelated.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Henry K. Lee » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:59 pm

The noise is due to the left side being held back by contact with the hub bolts, resulting in the right side trying to drive, equaling to a poor mans posi-track. This condition makes the steering act like a vehicle with a locked up differential.

The center disc in the gear carriers are shot as well. No center thrust.

Hope this Helps,

Hank


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Re: Rubbing noise???

Post by Larry e rutt » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:48 pm

Thanks guys, I really do appreciate the information.. I need to order some parts, and get them pins out.. and then back together... just that we've been really busy at work , seems people got all kinds of money right now
.

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