MTFCA Forum

This radiator is very inexpensive compared to the other radiators. Is worth buying?

They are made for street rods, ie, V8 T’s. Some have modified them to fit an original T.

Hank

That is a street rod radiator for T buckets ECT. It will not work for a stock T without modification

Henry K. Lee wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:34 am

They are made for street rods, ie, V8 T’s. Some have modified them to fit an original T.

Hank

What kind of modification you have to make? complicated ? Can you elaborate more?

There are several options. Here are the applications.

The inlet and outlet tubes as well as the fill cap are in need of modification in order to work in a stock Model T. Also the hood rod would need to be braised on

This should be interesting. Here is the question, if this radiator is used in a Model T designed for thermo-syphon cooling will it work and cool a Model T without a water pump? The reason for the question is if it is designed for a modern V-8, an modern hotrod, that used a water pump, how or why would it work in a Vintage T? Found an article some years back in Horseless Age, 1915, discussing the design of thermo-syphon cooling systems.

The answer: It's from Mac's.

The answer to the question of whether the $300.00 aluminum T radiator is junk is no. It won’t leak and it’s designed for what the add says. It’s cheaper because it’s all aluminum and cheaper to make.
T bucket hot rods with a modern V8 engine of some sort is what it’s for.
It would work in a stock T BUT with modifications such as relocating both water outlets if you want to use it to mount and line up the outlets on a T engine if you want to go to the trouble and not concerned about being authentic. The radiator shell probably will fit but the rest not so much. The add ought to say it’s a radiator for a Hot Rod with a T radiator shell to be correct and that’s the extent of it. But that’s my opinion!

I’ve never seen one on the forum that’s been used on a stock T.
It’s probably been done and if it has it would be interesting to see a picture of it. On a stock T of course and not a Hot Rod.

If I was building a wooden cab pickup truck with a t frame, t engine and transmission, and a 17 hood, would it fit?

If I was building a wooden cab pickup truck with a t frame, t engine and transmission, and a 17 hood, would it fit?

I assume, since it's intended for T-bucket hot rods, it would fit into the frame and radiator shell. But obviously it would require alterations to connect it to a Model T engine. Would it work in a non-pressurized thermosyphon cooling system? Dunno. I guess you could gamble $300 and find out.

Would it fit? Well, maybe. Note that in all the catalog items shown above the years they fit are listed as 1917-27. Stock T radiators are different for 1917-23 and 1923-27. I don't see how it could work for both with all other components being stock.

They do work with mods to fit. Just convert to steam venting and hose placement. They are aluminum so have a good welder available.

Hank

I don't know how you would attach a filler neck. I don't think it could be soldered. Only a professional radiator shop would be able to make modifications needed to work on a stock T. With the money it would cost to do so, you could have bought a Berg's or Brassworks radiator and had one we know is good.
Norm

The Ebay ads show a more T like configuration. These are from "speedway_motors". From the variety and prices I beleive they are what Mac's is selling. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Speedway-1917- ... 3401!US!-1

Looks to me like more than $600 worth of agony to go through all the cobbled up adjustments necessary to mate with an original car, and it may not function properly after all your trouble. Re-coring an original radiator is another option that likely costs less than a brand new reproduction. Another aspect, aluminum radiators don't get repaired. They get thrown away and replaced.

Re/ the "1917-27" notation, the top tank profile is the same regardless of the radiator height. Not an issue when building a street rod.

I realize that, Rich. He's not building a street rod. My comment was intended to address fit when using a '17 T hood.

I see "autopartsoutlet", "ymxautoparts" and "ajpdistributors" have adds for them on Ebay. They must be somewhat popular with the street rodders.
I agree with Rich. I would fix up an old radiator or buy a Brassworks one before I'd try an aluminum one. I have done both several times. However if they cooled twice as well I might give it some thought.

I think if you look on ebay you will find them for less. Someone on this board got one and was going to try it out. I don't recall the outcome if it was reported. Chances are it will fit the tall shell as is*. If you start with one that has the outlet on the bottom on the correct side and no intercooler for the transmission, it should not cost that much the have the upper tube moved, hood rod receiver and fake neck attached. Looking at the ones on eBay, *most look to set too far down below the mounts so would not work in a T frame(if the mount were moved would be too tall to fit high shell) but the prices are well under $300 + shipping, with most on eBay having free shipping. The one on Mac's looks to have the mounts ears too far up anyway. The Speedway one looks closer but the outlet tube is on the wrong side.

No, it will not work on a model t. No, it is not worth the savings to try to adapt it to a model t, or to adapt the model t to make it work.

HPetrino wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:46 am

I realize that, Rich. He's not building a street rod. My comment was intended to address fit when using a '17 T hood.

Right you are, Henry ! The height differences are very important for adapting the aluminum item to a stock T !
I doubt if a "hot rodder" cares what the height is !

The good news is that with that hotrod radiator when you convert your T transmission to full automatic you get the intercooler at the bottom of the radiator, LOL. No the hotrod radiator is not a good choice unless you own a radiator shop.

So I will ask the experts. If one does use this mentioned radiator, will it cool the engine sufficiently if a water pump is installed?

And if a water pump is installed, what kind of oil should you use?

THERE ARE NO EXPERTS!

Yes, these radiators will work just fine if you have the time to move the outlets around, convert to a steam over flow and fabricate a center rod support.

A water pump is a bonus, not everyone has $900.00 plus dollars for a new radiator but wants to join in on the fun. Why in the world do we have to be so much of a purist when it is only a radiator?

Remember that radiator was for a V8, higher compression, twice the cubic inches. They cool just fine. Have done a few over the years. No, I have to many projects at the moment and do not have time to do some mods.

Help another whom may be less fortunate than you in advice, for they may be your next generation of caretakers!

Humbled Hank

"Help another whom may be less fortunate than you in advice, for they may be your next generation of caretakers!"

Right on, thank you!

Thermosyphon is a natural reaction to basic laws of physics! It will work whether you want it to or not. No pump needed for use on a model T engine. Modern cars may NEED a pump because the larger engine creates about three times as much heat as a model T engine does. Thermosyphon speed is limited by those same laws of physics and for a modern engine might not be fast enough without using a radiator at least twice as large. That is why modern cars do not rely on thermosyphon. The size required, costs, added support structure, make a water pump a more economical option for them.

As for using one of these in a T? I am glad a couple people finally chimed in with the height consideration! I really think a better option to save a few dollars if one must? Is to have a modern core put between original tanks. Some brackets would need to be fabricated. I had to do that once to repair an original era after-market radiator that the original brackets had broken. Wasn't difficult. So the look of the core is wrong? One wrong looking core or the other? What's the difference?
Good reliable drivability and getting out to enjoy the car is what is important.

What gets my goat is why the same factory in Wangfuyang China can't go ahead and make some low and high radiators to actually FIT a Model T. it would be a affordable option for the speedster crowd for sure.

Tdump makes a lot of sense!
It sure seems like that the folks in China could make a radiator that would fit a Model T with no modifications. It may be there is more of a market for the hot rod market than for original cars but what do I know. At least they could move the water inlets to the correct position and the price would be pretty much the same. Or so it seems.

And I’ve never seen one on this forum being modified to fit an original Model T.

If anybody has one in their original car I’d like to see it and I’m sure others would too.

I get we all like to joke and have fun, but I feel that deters some to the original posters asking the question. Might even turn them sour on the forum with all the smart ass answers. Just saying, take it for what its worth all you complaining no new people want to join in this hobby.

Now that I have your attention, as Hank has mentioned, they can be made to work. I bought one ($140 Ebay), I have a TIG welder and could do aluminum welding, I gave the idea up when I found a used decent copper/brass original aftermarket for less than what I paid for the aluminum one (It was a good score).

So here is the skinny, being not all was explained.

--They only fit the high style grill style (after mods)

--The tank top needs to be modified so it is more roof shaped rather than dome shaped---to fit the rad shell correctly.

--The mounts are in the wrong spot and need to be cut off and refabricated and welded back on

--The bottom tank is too large, need to remove internal trans cooler and shorten the height of the tank to clear the frame crossmember and engine mount.

--Hood rod support needs to get fabricated and welded on

--If it doesn't have one, you can buy the radiator fill separately and weld it on (probably best in case they weld it in the wrong spot)

--The lower hose mount could potentially be usable as is, but then you need a curved radiator hose to line it up.

--The top hose mount you could also probably cobble together with different radiator curve hoses OR cut the port off and reweld in the center with the proper angle.


If you have to pay someone to do this, just go buy a Bergs and be happy that it cools and functions AND Bolts right on as stock would.

If you have a friend that wouldn't charge you time (because there would be alot of it) or if you can weld aluminum yourself, it might cost you $50 -$100 extra in materials and welding gas, but would be a fun do it yourself project.

If you read my post I never said it couldn't be done I just showed the original radiator and listed MOST of the modifications that would be needed to make it work. There are many more modifications like mounting etc that need to be incorporated

Dennis, I wasn't saying you were wrong in any way, you were correct in your post. I am sorry if you took that as me saying you were.

Being I have one in hand, I looked hard and long at it and the list I came up with was pretty comprehensive.

Good post Chad on the modifications that need to be done for the aluminum radiator to fit.
It sounds like you could have a new core put in an original radiator if you paid someone to modify and buy an aluminum one. Some have the skills to do it and others not so much so that would be an issue for some. And as I said in my earlier post the marketing description needs to be more clearer about fit up. There is a lesson here. Just because an add says for a Model T it’s not always quite like it seems.
Thanks for the post.

John kuehn wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:58 pm

Good post Chad on the modifications that need to be done for the aluminum radiator to fit.
It sounds like you could have a new core put in an original radiator if you paid someone to modify and buy an aluminum one. Some have the skills to do it and others not so much so that would be an issue for some. And as I said in my earlier post the marketing description needs to be more clearer about fit up. There is a lesson here. Just because an add says for a Model T it’s not always quite like it seems.
Thanks for the post.

John, you are exactly correct. I first wondered why the stock rad shell wouldn't fit. As it turns out, these are meant for obviously T-bucket guys, but are designed so no shell is needed, and you can just paint it black, or the upper tank and side panels to match whatever color the body is. I've since seen these on T-buckets with a Ford emblem stuck to the upper tank.

But even if I was building a T bucket, to me it still has the wrong looks for use with no shell. And most realistic people will sell you a real T shell reasonably. This aluminum rad in a T bucket application, I would just lengthen the sides of the stock high shell until it fit the radiator...because obviously no hood would be in use.

If anyone is interested, I have a new aluminum radiator and filler neck that I will sell for much less than what Mac’s is selling them for. Send me an email for more details.

Like Chad, I bought one of the aluminum radiators with intentions of modifying it to work on my speedster. I was up for the challenge since this question seems to come up from time to time and I wanted to see if I could make it work.

A few months ago I found a good deal on a new Brassworks radiator so my motivation to modify the aluminum one as ended.

Just like Chad and Hank said, it can be modified to fit a T with some work. If you are able to weld aluminum or know someone who can, you could have yourself a nice radiator at a reasonable price.

It was mentioned that this thread should be helpful. It has to be remembered that before the Model T and even after the Model T thermosyphon was used on both European and American cars and farm tractors (Farmal A - check out a 1945 unit). One reason the method of cooling was inexpensive - translated into being simple and cheap to manufacture, but in order for the system to work, even with the manufacturing of modern replacement units, certain guideline were needed. Attached is a summery from an article from The Horseless age for 1915 that summarizes a well designed thermosyphon cooling system, without the water pump. Henry and his boys did not invent the thermosyphon cooling, but took advantage of the work of others to make a cheap simple car.

i bought a new one off ebay and have $135.00 in it now. i have used it for 3 years. the temperature drop from top to bottom is about 60 degrees. this is temporary until i find a good used one. i did not modify my car only the radiator

I can give you mine if you want it. It came with my touring originally and it should work. Having said that they don't fit particularly well. See this old thread of pictures with it installed as the car came to me. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1480963130 I ended up just buying a new correct one and have not regretted it. I still have the old one.

Jonah D'Avella wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:31 am

This radiator is very inexpensive compared to the other radiators. Is worth buying?

Thanks for posting Charlie, That is the same way I was modifying them.

Hank

I converted this one some years back.

I purchased one off eBay that is setup for late model Ford (I believe). The radiator outlet is in the correct location. I fabricated an "S" to line up the engine outlet with the radiator inlet. The fittings on the radiator is smaller in diameter than the "T"

Several modifications needed but very do-able by garage mechanic/engineer.