Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

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AdminJeff
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Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by AdminJeff » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:23 pm

So a month ago "George" started running a little rough. At first I thought it was a spark problem as shorting #1 had zero effect. Hours down that path proved useless, so I just kept driving and Trying to adjust the mixture on the carb to no avail.

Then Last Tuesday I took a drive to get a flu shot and the motor started backfiring on decelerations. Richening the carb or advancing the spark had no effect. Ok, time to dive in, especially with an all-day tour coming up on Sat. What I found when I loosened the manifold bolt was kind of mind blowing...
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4F515B73-5313-4029-BFCE-B6E68485891A.jpeg
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Yes, that is my intake broken into two pieces. All of a sudden everything started making sense. No wonder it was running lean and backfiring. I'm sure it started as a hairline crack and got bigger and bigger as time went on.

Digging in deeper showed this cast iron intake was actually braised together long ago:
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D1A81D47-281F-4E2D-81D7-A25AC4198BBA.jpeg
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Investigating further I found the attachment flange on the updraft portion of the manifold was also braised onto the intake, clearly in an attempt to match the huge carb diameter to the manifold to increase the airflow. A noble endeavor by the previous owner for sure, and I know it makes a difference.
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B94A40DF-70C0-4811-B300-E5B1C0760F8B.jpeg
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It took all my patience and creativity to braise it back together with silver solder brazing Rod, but I finally got it, and it ran great on the tour. And the air quality here in Sonoma County was finally tolerable!
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4065A0A0-1066-4608-A7F2-980D3320D309.jpeg
I'm curious if anyone else has an updraft Winfield S or SR carb on their T and how theirs is configured. Pictures would be worth a thousand words.

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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by AndyClary » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:47 pm

If it's going to happen to anyone it's going to happen to you Jeff.

Andy

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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by AdminJeff » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:55 pm

AndyClary wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:47 pm
If it's going to happen to anyone it's going to happen to you Jeff.
Andy
So true... but, we're all here to learn, and this car never disappoints in that regard. :shock:
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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by Allan » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:11 am

Jeff, for a while I thought you had been braising in a manifold cooker.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by DHort » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:18 am

Your T was trying to tell you it is too early for a flu shot. Not until October....

You want it to last through the flu season.


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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by jab35 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:34 am

Jeff: That failed brazed joint appears to me to have been made with a minimum of heat, all the brass is on the outer surface, none has flowed into the joint gap, making it a weak, fatigue prone mechanical joint. I suspect this was intentional to insure none of the brass seeped inside the manifold where it might disrupt air-fuel mixture inflow. At least the issue was easily identified, drive careful. jb

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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by AdminJeff » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:51 am

jab35 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:34 am
Jeff: That failed brazed joint appears to me to have been made with a minimum of heat, all the brass is on the outer surface, none has flowed into the joint gap, making it a weak, fatigue prone mechanical joint. I suspect this was intentional to insure none of the brass seeped inside the manifold where it might disrupt air-fuel mixture inflow. At least the issue was easily identified, drive careful. jb
Good catch, yes, that's exactly what it looked like. I used silver braising rod this time (it was all brass originally) and made sure that at least 4 good sized places around the pipe flowed well into the joint. Better slightly reduced flow than breakage again.

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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by jsaylor » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:03 pm

Jeff, I run a Winfield S 1 B on my 27 Tudor. I used the reproduction Winfield manifold from Chaffin's with an adapter plate drilled for the Winfield and the manifold.
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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by AdminJeff » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:16 pm

jsaylor wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:03 pm
Jeff, I run a Winfield S 1 B on my 27 Tudor. I used the reproduction Winfield manifold from Chaffin's with an adapter plate drilled for the Winfield and the manifold.
John, Where do you get the adapter plate???
Can you send me some pics of your linkage setup? mine goes thru the block right now. Yours looks like it goes overhead.

Andy - is it time to fire up that milling machine???

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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by jsaylor » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:54 pm

I bought the carb at a swapmeet several years ago. It had the adapter on it. The owner was running it on a mid 20's chevy setup as a down draft and complained how bad it ran. This is an updraft carb. Got a good price. The adapter is a 3/8" steel plate that has ben drilled and tapped. I recently discovered the Model T fan gasket is an exact fit to the Winfield square flange.
My car is a 27 and had the vaporizer and over the top linkage. No hole in the block. This is a simple linkage that has worked well with various carbs over the years. The "L" shaped piece is an off the shelf corner brace from the hardware store.
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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by John bevardos » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:59 pm

John ,
how does she run? I have a couple at home I might play with soon.

John

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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by jsaylor » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:48 pm

John
It’s one of the smoothest carbs I have tried. Had a Winfield M for a while but the S runs much better. The car has an A crank and Hc pistons. The S really woke it up.

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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by AndyClary » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:36 pm

Jeff, I've made this adapter before its not too difficult. I may have one in my winfield drawer.

Andy


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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by Kevin Pharis » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:26 pm

jsaylor wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:48 pm
John
It’s one of the smoothest carbs I have tried. Had a Winfield M for a while but the S runs much better. The car has an A crank and Hc pistons. The S really woke it up.
The M’s are pretty good... but have only 2 circuits and all the usual barrel valve problems. The S adds a 3rd fuel circuit, acts as a progressive 2 barrel, and also doesn’t have the barrel valve vacuum leak/idle problems. The design may be from 1933... but the technology (and carburetor) was still competitive even at Indy up till the war

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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by AdminJeff » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:22 pm

I've had 3 carbs on this car. Stock Holley NH, zenith s4bh and the Winfield S. The Winfield is by far the best performer of the 3, from idle to jumping off the line, to just cruising. It Especially Shined when climbing hills. A hill I had to do in low ruckstell with the zenith I could do in Ford low with the Winfield with power to spare. I was shocked actually.

There's really no comparison. The biggest difference is from the NH. The zenith was better, but still not even in the same league as the Winfield.

Of course this is on my car, my hills, Etc. Your mileage will vary.

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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by Dan McEachern » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:52 pm

M's have 3 circuits- the early barrel valves only had 2 as I recall. Here's proof- just keeping ya honest! Jeff is correct though- Winfields do make an engine run quite well.
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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by Kevin Pharis » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:53 pm

Well that settles it Dan... I’m gonna have to purge a few less important memories (birthdays, phone numbers, wife’s name) as they seem to be pushing out the important ones 😉


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Re: Winfield carb intake manifold fun... and braising cast iron.

Post by big2bird » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:07 am

Kevin Pharis wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:53 pm
Well that settles it Dan... I’m gonna have to purge a few less important memories (birthdays, phone numbers, wife’s name) as they seem to be pushing out the important ones 😉
Don't worry. As you age that is automatically done for you.

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