MTFCA Forum

What oil do I use in my T? 5w? 60w?

Here we go, thanks for asking!

It has been said here many times that almost any modern oil you can buy is WAY better than the oil that was available when Model Ts were new.

Others will disagree, but I run modern 10W-30 in the summertime and 5W-30 in the winter based on an old recommendation from Royce Peterson.

Whichever oil you choose, be sure NOT to get an oil with graphite in it, the graphite will mess up the magneto.

Would fully synthetic oil work?

Go to Wal-Mart, the Dollar Store, Auto-zone etc and buy their house brand oil. No need to buy exotic expensive oil. I like 10w-30 and as others have 5w-30 if your area gets really cold.

And again house brand oil is much better than oil used in the ModelT era. You can’t go wrong with it. You can spend your money on the more expensive types but it’s really not necessary.

Full synthetic MIGHT work, but IMO it would be a waste of money. Remember, Model Ts don't have an oil filter, so you will need to change the oil more often than a more modern car.

Of course, if you have a source for FREE full synthetic oil, the money aspect is moot.

Is anyone running full synthetic in their T? How about a report?

CudaMan wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:08 pm

Full synthetic MIGHT work, but IMO it would be a waste of money. Remember, Model Ts don't have an oil filter, so you will need to change the oil more often than a more modern car.

Of course, if you have a source for FREE full synthetic oil, the money aspect is moot.

Is anyone running full synthetic in their T? How about a report?

Full synthetic is always a good idea in my opinion. It's all I've used for years. I'm convinced that engine wear is just the difference between your oil and perfect lubrication. Good synthetic oil won't let engine wear happen.

I have used Amsoil Premium 10W-40 since my first oil change after breaking in the engine. The protection of full synthetic oil is excellent. No problems with band slippage either. HOWEVER...my car doesn't leak much, and I get it at a discount that prices it about where Pennzoil, Castrol, or Valvoline is. If either of those things was a factor (price or leakage), I would probably just be running whatever was on sale.

I use Valvoline VR1 racing oil. High zddp content for the tappets.

To answer your synthetic question: NO!

Just use 10W30 and you'll be fine. Despite some arguments, the REAL cheap 10w30 is not so good...check the seal on the back.

Frankly, you absolutely cannot beat Rotella 10w30 or if not available the 15w40 will be fine, and at such places as
Rural King, you can get it for about the same price as the cheap junk. And it has the most amount of zinc in at as any, which again, arguments notwithstanding, does help the flat tappets. Again, that's another whole argument I'm not getting into.

Last time I got the Rotella at Rural King it was $12.97 a gallon, and $3.99 a quart. About the same as the "bargain brand." My engines are always spotless inside. I also ran an entire fleet of school busses on it, both gas and diesel and never a failure or a problem.
My two cents.

If there are still a quarter million Model T's running, there are probably a million opinions on what oil to put in them.

I asked couple of guys who do lots of long distance Model T driving. One said 20W-50 Kendall. I didn't ask why Kendall specifically. The other said 15W-40. He didn't specify a brand.

I believe you get what you pay for. With major brands you get lots of expensive advertising. Go to your local Walmart and compare oil containers. You will find the same API symbol on all of them, including the less expensive Walmart house brand.


http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG103.html

Shell Rotella 15W40 has more ZDDP than most oils available and is recommended for older engines - I run it in my '52 Jeep, '53 Tractor, '89 boat and '17 T. Though ZDDP is an important anti-wear additive for many older engines it's less important in really old engines such as in your Model T. Since I use it in many vehicles, I go to Sam's Club and buy cases of four one-Gallon jugs for a decent savings. Since the Model T takes a gallon of oil, I drain the old, pour in the new and use the empty jug to store the used oil until I can recycle it.

60w ? With gravity flow, I think that is too viscous. Remember your oil has to run down the small tube from the transmission to the front of the engine to lubricate the engine. You should normally use no higher than 30W If you have a lot of wear and it burns oil, perhaps 40W, but no higher than 40.
As for synthetic, The main reason people use synthetic is that it does not break down with a lot of miles on it and you can do 5,000 miles on a modern car with a full flow filter to take out the dirt from the oil, however on a T with no filter, all iron particles, carbon, and band lint get in the oil and it should be changed at least every 500 miles. So it is a waste to use synthetic. It won't hurt the engine to use it, but it won't help either. You should still change often.
Norm

Use 30 weight Rotel year-round

I've been using a non synthetic motorcycle oil in 10W40. Motorcycle oil is formulated for use in applications where the engine and transmission share the same oil and for use with wet clutches. So it made sense to me to use in it my T.

I agree with Twrenn. I use Rotella 10 W 30 which is available (usually) at Wal Mart. I have checked with Shell, and Rotella still has lots of zinc in it. It has been pointed out to me that the T has low valve spring pressure so zinc isn't as important in a T as it might be with a more modern flat-tappet engine, but it sure won't hurt anything. I also use it in the 400+ cubic inch V8 in my pickup truck.

There's a lot of useful information in this discussion, thanks for sharing. And it is one of the most civil discussions of this topic ever. Thanks MTFCA!

I get 5 quarts of oil at o'riley's for 15 dollars
Full synthetic

When my father first starting tinkering with Model T Fords as a teenager in 1948, he would put used oil from my grandparents' Cadillac in his Ts.

A 94 year old acquaintance of mine in the antique car hobby told me that in the early 1940s he would obtain free used motor oil from the neighborhood garage and put it in his Model A Ford.

I use non detergent 30W Supertech from walmart.

I responded to a similar question in a recent thread and rather than point to it I'll modify it for this context.
There are a lot of responses/preferences/successes based on oil viscosity and detergent versus non-detergent motor oil. Viscosity choice should be based on the climate/season that the car is to be driven in. Multi-grade oils are a good choice for temperature ranges while a mono-grade would be better where the temperature range varies very little. Based on the amount of use of my car (low mileage); climate (all 4 seasons) the most practical choice is multi-grade.
Non-detergent oils were intended for engines without oil filters. They cause the contaminated oil to stick to the engine walls and valleys to prevent the dirty oil form damaging bearings etc.. Detergent oils contain additives to keep the contaminates in suspension so the can be filtered out through an oil filter. There are many arguments for using one or the other - either way you need to first drop the inspection pan in the engine and remove and slug build-up before you add your choice. Because the engine has no oil filter it is necessary to regularly check your oil for cleanliness, and change or drop the inspection pan as required.
Lastly as is often mentioned in discussions about engine oil - if you use (or have) a magneto you should never use an oil containing graphite (most do not)
In my response to the other discussion there was specification JASO MA/MA2 for Motorcycles using the same oil for lubricating the engine and the wet clutch. Interesting spec! https://www.oilspecifications.org/artic ... ASO_MB.php

We recently discussed this, maybe here somewhere, Ford originally put the equivalent of 10W in his cars when they shipped... so 10W40 would probably be just fine. I run 30W only becaiue I've been doing that since dad owned the car (although when I got the car I switched it over to normal detergent oil as the ND oils were all compressor oils - fine for rotating parts, not as fine for the comression loading of a firing cylinder). Also, a lot of 100% synthetics are too thin and will escape your seals... and are so slippery your clutch will slip.

Remember, too, that your motor oil (unlike a modern car) ALSO lubricates your wet clutch and transmission, so while running a thin 0W oil may sound like the cat's pajamas, it's not doing your transmission any favors.

Whatever was run in the car before is a baseline to start. If you want to change (like I did) I began by doing a slow changeover through a few oil changes until I had the oil in it I wanted...

Now let's talk about putting 600W in Ruckstells, having a water pump, and installing a distributor... (to me it's yes, maybe, and no.)

Started reading about oils differences on the INTERNET
Car engine oils contain friction modifiers and are formulated with the aim of reducing friction between moving parts in order to provide good fuel economy and efficiency. Also, these oils contain detergent additives, whose ash content is relatively high. If used in motorcycle engines, these could result in the formation of deposits on the piston crowns as well as the valve train. Because detergents are the main cause of pressure build up, this will cause perforation and burning on the components.
Motorcycles, on the other hand, use the same oil for both the engine and the gearbox. They are therefore uniquely formulated to offer protection for engine components and the gears. Compared to car engines, a motorcycle engine oil requires balanced friction characteristics as it needs to lubricate the wet clutch, which in turn transfers engine power to the drivetrain. If the friction level is too low, the clutch will not be able to engage and will cause slippage. Motorcycle oils are formulated to handle the transmission, more specifically, the wet clutches found in most bikes. The oil needs to be slippery enough to protect the engine, but not too slippery. This means that they strike a good balance between clutch performance, engine, and transmission protection. This is something that is not considered in the manufacturing of car oils.
Diesel engine oils - Diesel engine oil has more additives per volume. The most prevalent are overbase detergent additives. This additive has several jobs, but the main ones are to neutralize acids and clean. Diesel engines create a great deal more soot and combustion byproducts. Through blow-by, these find their way into the crankcase, forcing the oil to deal with them. NOTE: When you put this extra additive load in a gasoline engine, the effects can be devastating to performance. The detergent will work as it is designed and try to clean the cylinder walls. This can have an adverse effect on the seal between the rings and liner, resulting in lost compression and efficiency. Especially if non-detergent oil had been used.

Frank, it's sounding like from your research (THANK YOU for that, BTW!) we should be steering more towards a motorcycle oil in our vehicles rather than an automotive oil? We have a lot of the same issues as does a motorcycle, with the wet sump gearbox and clutch (and of course bands and, like my old honda and kawasaki, no oil filter), wondering if in your research there was a determination of whether one was better or worse than another...

Everything old is new again - an oil discussion from ten years ago. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/133314.html

Speaking of Motorcycle oils, has anyone tried Castrol Actevo 4T 10W-40 Part Synthetic Motorcycle Oil?

Susanne wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:21 pm

...... wondering if in your research there was a determination of whether one was better or worse than another...

Are you referring to the type of oil, brand, viscosity, synthetic? I am leaning heavily towards Motorcycle oil so far because of the wet clutch references and some previous discussions where grabbing/chattering when changing gears were discussed. No idea on the effect for those using Kevlar bands. As far as viscosity gores - the benefit of a lower viscosity oil is two fold, easier starting in cold weather but also because its thinner at starting temperature it is likely to spread itself more quickly. Higher viscosity is better for lubrication. This would infer that a multi-grade might be a good choice (for some). Some new car manufacturers are recommending fir cars with high performance engines 0w20 grade oil -image the low viscosity is to lube quickly in any temperature and no doubt it thickens quickly. Since the T has no oil filter checking the cleanliness of the oil is a necessity and since it has no real shelf life (over 5 years) it should be changed when needed. Dropping the inspection pan for sludge buildup is something that should be done whether using detergent or non-detergent oil needs to be done. What's found the each time will set the schedule for the next inspection.
Synthetic vs non-synthetic and brand - If one chooses to use a particular Viscosity and API service, car or motorcycle etc - then the cheapest oil meeting that specification should be the choice. Current ratings for the "best" oil are based on (high) mileage between changes that retain their specs. The best are good for 7,500 -10,000 miles between changes Not fit for a T

Oldav8tor wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:49 pm

Everything old is new again - an oil discussion from ten years ago. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/133314.html
Speaking of Motorcycle oils, has anyone tried Castrol Actevo 4T 10W-40 Part Synthetic Motorcycle Oil?

Wasn't here back then but glad you pointed that out the link - has been missed in the multitude of previous oil responses

TRDxB2 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:19 pm

Some new car manufacturers are recommending fir cars with high performance engines 0w20 grade oil -image the low viscosity is to lube quickly in any temperature and no doubt it thickens quickly.

It's also because thinner oil uses less fuel. My '11 Subaru uses 0W20 full synthetic, and is a "Partial Zero Emission Vehicle", HOWEVER I can run 5W30 in it, either Full or partial synthetic (or even dino oil) BUT I then lose the PZEV factor until i replace the oil (and filter) with 0W20 Full Syn... says so both on the Subaru site AND in the owners manual

I suspect it's to get these newer, tighter engines to lower their emissions. Of course since my T is neither "newer" nor "tighter", I don't think it'll ever make PZEV status short of coasting downhill with an auxiliary transmission stuck in neutral... (and at that point the "emissions" definitely won't be from the car...)

I'm about to change my oil and put in some Pennzoil 5W-30 synthetic. I'll post some results after I run her for a bit. Should I change the oil when the engine is hot? This is the first oil change I've ever done on a car, considering this is my first car!

OK Branden,
Finaly a question that has the potential of realy stirring things up. lol. The reason for warming up the engine is to stir up any sediment that is in the engin & trans. so when you drain the oil it is removed instaed of staying in the bottum of the pan. Detergent oil is designed to keep the sediment in suspension so it can be removed from the oil by the filter. But with no filter that will not happen. Non detergent oil does not do this as well so if running non detergent oil a good vigerous run will help stir things up. Be carefull of the hot oil, gloves & classes are a good idea. I like to clean the drain pan real good first so you can look to see if anything expensive is going on inside. My thought is the weight is more importent for the condisions you are driving in than the brand, cost or type of oil. To light of oil in the summer or to heavy in the winter will cause some issues. Multy grades help with that but I would never run 0W or 5W anything in a T in Arizona as many of you would never run 40 or 50.

My car does not have an oil screen, but I have one with the magnet and I was planning on installing it when I changed the oil. Should I just install it, run her to warm her up, then drain the old oil and clean the old oil off screen and replace it to catch even more stuff?

Also, my oil level is barely to the bottom petcock, it dribbles out when I open it, so I'm worried running her with low oil to warm her up would damage her. It seems like there's gray/black motor oil leaking out of my differential bell housing (a new development), I didn't pack enough grease into the universal joint the first time I did it so I'm thinking some oil has gotten past the universal joint, lowering the engine oil level, and leaked into the differential and out of the bottom? 600W oil looks pretty red in the bottle, so I don't think it's 600W oil, probably motor oil. I was going to drain out the old 600W oil in the differential and replace it with fresh 600W this winter, but now I'm thinking it might need to be cleaned to remove the motor oil?

Just change the oil. Jack up the front end so the oil in the dips can run out and pour a quart of clean oil in. Let the car set overnight or longer with the drain plug out. Then put the plug in and lower the front of the car. Pour about half you oil directly into the transmission and place the screen. Then replace the cover. Be sure to seal with a gasket sealer, not too much so it won't get inside the transmission. Then fill the oil from the filler tube in front of the engine. Fill until oil flows out the top petcock. Note run a wire in and out of the petcock to loosen up any thick oil or dirt which might keep it from flowing out when it is up to level. Pour the last part of the oil a little at a time and check so as not to overfill the engine. As soon as you start it up, the new oil will dilute whatever remains of the old oil, and you should have no problems.
Norm